Fitting Handle onto plywood fire doors

[sarahbeenylover]

Hi sounds pretty simple? I thought so too. I have two HMO's in which I have got a carpenter to fit the 30 minute plywood flush fire doors. I purchased these from Howdens & specially sized ones from Premdor. I ordered the fire door kits from Ironmongery direct who were excellent on price and quality seemed ok too. The problem we are having is the door handles keep working loose. The screws provided in the fire door handle kits were too long & punctured the lock box, which we replaced. However as the screws have to be much shorter they are not holding the handle on for very long when in use with the door closer - as this weights the door heavier.
Carpenter has mentioned maybe putting a bolt through the handle where there is a hole for one through the lock box - but hes unable to come & do this for a month! My concern is whether this would be possible, keeping the door handle on rose the way it looks with the cover plate on - ie tidy.
If anyone has any suggestions on how we can find a solution to this issue please I'd be really grateful.

 

[Burnerman]

I think a pic or two could help here, but consider Carlisle spare bolt through fixings......essentially a bolt with one end as a screwdriver slotted sleeve - the bolt is cut to length as appropriate. Neat!
John

 

[sarahbeenylover]

Oh cheers John thanks for commenting so quickly! I will look at this bolt then.
Here are some pictures

 

[Burnerman]

Hmmm.......those bolts of mine would be fine, but it looks like the lock itself could be in the way
Its the sort of situation where the screws need to be just right, first time for a success, unfortunately, but even one bolt would help a lot!
John

 

[JohnD]

Take the lock out and see what piercings it has for fixing screws. Two per spindle is usual. You can see example piercings for bolt-through fixing in the yellow lock case in the picture above. The lock ought to come with a paper template showing where to drill.

Sleeve nuts would do the trick, or if exposed, coach bolts, using acorn nuts (for elegance) on the inside. Some door furniture is supplied with female screw sockets in the plates. Those are supposed to go on the outside, and no nut is required.

Edit

Here you are

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M3-Thin-B...667793?hash=item1e9a88aed1:g:OAYAAOSwv0tU8ZlW

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/pair-of-s...579554?hash=item41a276f662:g:DiUAAOSw3xJVfz5p

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_f...handle.TRS0&_nkw=bolt+through+handle&_sacat=0

 

[sarahbeenylover]

Ok thanks guys, is this something that the carpenter should have done anyhow? not just relied on the screws to fix the handles?
Think the bolts are def the way forward, I just hope the handle cover plate will fit back on top so it all looks tidy...
Thanks again for your help your ace x

 

[JohnD]

Screws are usually OK on a wooden door, but hollow doors, and fire doors which are usually made of economy-grade chipboard with an ornamental skin, do not hold screws successfully. Sometimes you can ream out the loose holes and pack with no-more-nails or equivalent, which once set, may take a screw. There may be a better material. Often the lock case prevents a good length of screw being used, and you can nip off the points and use a short, thick screw.

Some backplates for lever and lock-lever sets are made extra-long so that they clear the latch or lock case and a longer screw can be used. I have a similar problem in my house which has fire doors and horizontal sashes. A skilled carpenter who cuts a close-fitting mortice gives the maximum depth of material to screw into. My latest door was fitted by a skilled joiner and is nicely done.

 

[foxhole]

Ideally you need handles which lock onto the spindle either side with a grub screw , then the rose takes no strain at all as the handles are locked onto the spindle and cannot loosen.I would be surprised to find fire door handles which don't bolt together as in a fire you could pull off the handles leaving you trapped inside with no mean of escape.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Those handles seem to be the correct type for fire doors and are certainly designed to be used with spindle/nut sets and the E*S (or Easi-T) mortise lock fitted should have either a drilling and a notch horizontally on either side of the spindle hole (as on this shallow lock body):

or there should be two drillings through the body (as seen on this full depth lock body):

The rose around the base of the handle will have two holes punched through horizontally either side of the handle - one of these will be circular, the other will often be hexagonal to secure the spindle/nut set. The handles can be a bit time consuming and fiddly to fit, especially the spindle/nut beneath the handle (towards the hinged edge of the door) which is difficult to get at, but failure to do this can render the handle useless in the event of an emergency as others have said. It is a common "pull" on bigger jobs where installers are trying to cut corners by using small screws instead of the supplied spindle/nut sets (and one that every QS and foreman knows about).

My feeling is that as the handle/rose sets would (should?) have been supplied with the appropriate spindle/nut sets the installer should be told to come back and rectify the incorrect installation