Fixing joists to binders

[Sledge]

I'm drawing up plans to retrofit beefed up binders. As the ceilings are already in place and pretty tight to the joists, I'm thinking I might use builders metal banding to sling the joists to the new binders. Here's a link of the sort of thing I'm talking about:

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Con...vanised+Banding+50mm+x+10m/d210/sd2797/p66668

My intention is to mimic a speedy hanger (loop under the joists and then up over and down the binders). Anyone forsee any issues?

Cheers

 

[catlad]

Is it your attic above, if so you can cut some batons to length and hang your ceiling from the rafters. I cant see a problem with what you are asking.

 

[Sledge]

Thanks for the reply.

I have considered hanging the joists from the rafters, but my purlins are already overloaded by modern standards. So much so that I resisted the urge to accept the 43p FiT for solar PV for fear that the lot might end up in the room below (imho when the snow falls heavy on the ground, you wanna be congratulating yourself over how much leccy you've saved earlier in the year, not fretting about a roof collapse!).

Further to the banding, I note FB20, a simpson strong-tie product is NOT recommended for structural use. My guess is the 50mm version might be much the same. It looks as if simple twist ties might be the only option, although my feeling is the amount of nails these guys require (6) could well weaken the joists. I'd prefer to sling and do minimal nailing in the joists (other than a small amount for lateral restraint).

I'll be calling strong-tie in the morning to see what they suggest, but I fear they will merely proffer the twisted strap solution. Not keen. At all.

 

[Sledge]

Well, just for the forum's information, the call to Simpson's revealed little other than a supposedly new "engineered" angle iron that doesn't actually exist. Instead I was pointed towards the MTS12 - basically a twist affair that requires the six nails mentioned above. To be frank I'm considering working out exactly what guage of metal banding I'd need for the required stress and sourcing that, affixing it as one would a speedy hanger. Of course, this would then not be an "approved" bracket, so I might have trouble with the BCO. That's the thing about our regulatory environment: it ain't about guidance or knowledge or even best practice. It's about keeping people dumb. Keeping people taxed. Have a problem? Buy this product. Don't think: pay. And if you can't buy the solution? Adjust your view of what constitutes a problem. Brilliant.

And just to add insult to injury, Simpson's tell me that "Even the bigger merchant groups we sell to such as Travis Perkins, Buildercentre, Jewsons, Buildbase etc would have to order a box of these in". I always knew I was a freak, but this is getting ridiculous.


You'd think with all the permutations and combinations of metalwork simpson make, somebody somewhere might have considered the retrofit market : nah.

Rant over.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

What are you going on about? I don't even understand what it is you want to do.

 

[Sledge]

What are you going on about? I don't even understand what it is you want to do.

There's no need to be rude. As I said, I'm drawing up plans to put in beefed up binders. I'm asking the forum about ways to affix these binders to the existing joists they will be supporting.

 

[noseall]

Skew screw the binder to the joist with two 100mm - 12's.

 

[Sledge]

Skew screw the binder to the joist with two 100mm - 12's.

At ~45 degs maybe 1 inch up each side of the binder? ... which would of course be a better job than the original builder made (just the one nail on the old weedy 4"x2" binders) and have the happy consequence of excluding simpson's metal work from the job.

Even so, I'm so indoctrinated from reading builder's metalwork specs from the likes of BAT and Simpson, it's hard to believ eI can simply do w/o them! Won't the BCO throw a wobbler when he sees the plans?

 

[catlad]

I beginning to think you are a loony now. how about screwing some eyes into your ceiling ties, tying some cable to which you get some large balloons fill them with helium.

 

[Sledge]

I beginning to think you are a loony now. .

Another rude person.

Your first suggestion was that I support the ceiling off an already over-stressed purlin/rafters. FYI purlins are sized to reduce the effective length of rafters. They are not sized to hold up binders/ceilings.

If your suggestion represents sanity, I'm happy with crazy.

 

[Alastairreid]

I beginning to think you are a loony now. .

Another rude person..

Plenty of them on here!

 

[^woody^]

It's very simple. Just use a roll of standard builders band ... screwed in so does not disturb the ceiling

 

[Sledge]

Thanks woody. That would be perfect. Any chance of a link to something suitable?