Flow problem with new Worcester 38 CDi flow rates

[Julian Moore]

Was having the Potterton boiler of my mega flow system replaced and the plumber removes the old boiler and the tank and then tells me I cannot, for clearance reasons, have a straight replacement but need to have a combi put in - he installed a Worcester 38 CDi Classic - I had about 20 mins to agree to this or would have been left with no water at all!

The issue is that the flow has gone right down and showers are just not the same any more (they are "average" as my son described it rather than high pressure). Flow from the hot is about 3/4 the flow I can get from the same tap on cold in the kitchen.

I note that the old system ran on 22mm piping in and out but the new one has 22mm going down to 15mm at the boiler and then expands out to 22mm as it goes out of the boiler shed. The pipework at the taps is however 15mm, so

Into boiler house 22mm
Into boiler 15mm
Out of boiler 15mm
Out of boiler house 22mm
At shower 15mm.

Is the issue here that I have the wrong boiler for the piping so either I need to replace all the post boiler pipe work to 15mm or I need to have a boiler that takes 22mm piping such as the 440 Highflow. Any views?

 

[Agile]

No, you have a combi ! Its nothing to do with pipe sizes. Its the specification of a combi boiler.

No competent engineer would have fitted a combi as a replacement for a heat only boiler and cylinder without warning you about the slower flow rates you were going to get?

Seems to me he has tricked you all because you were frightened about having no hot water for a day.

Many installers only want to fit combi boilers.

Was he even gas safe registered?

Why did you not get proper advice, even here, before you let this trickster into your house?

 

[Julian Moore]

The company I used are a large and supposedly reputable firm. (Which Trusted Trader, Worcester Bosh accredited, GAS SAFE, OFTEC etc etc)

The sales guy had said a straight boiler switch would work and this is what they came to do but the plumber had to take the tank out to get access to the bboiler and then said the pitch of the roof was too tight for clearances etc.. He said I would get the same flow rate but clearly this was wishful thinking - it is not a bad system but is a down grade on my old system and frankly not something I can live with for 15 years until it dies....

Not sure what the solution is here but I still owe them £2k!

 

[Julian Moore]

They did try to get me to take the 36CDI compact (which was closer the the budget quote that they were working to) - however I refused this as the 24kw for heating would probably not work in a 5 bed 16 rad home (advertsied as being for a 2/3 bed home...). Unfortunately I did not have time to research flow rates and what I read briefly online did not indicate that there would be a problem (all marketing materials are full of positive guff and reviews said it would was suited to a 2 bath home)

I guess this is all about them getting the job in on budget rather than thinking about their customers needs. In short I have been mis-sold and will now seek to get them to replace it ..... pain and £££

 

[oph]

Combi was never going to give the flow rate an unvented would

 

[Dan Robinson]

Which Trusted Trader,

Means next to nothing

Worcester Bosh accredited

Means even less than the above.

GAS SAFE

The clue is in the name.


24kW would have been fine for the house. But not reach your hot water expectations - as I suspect NO combination boiler would manage.

 

[Agile]

One of the deciding factors for an employed installer could have been the second hand value of the Megaflow cylinder. That could easily be £150 !

 

[Agile]

In my view they have installed a totally unsatisfactory system for you.

But it seems that you actually agreed to it !

So many would say you have no redress now.

I would never treat a client like that and would refuse to fit anything unsuitable.

The customer often thinks he is right but in many cases he is not.

Tony

 

[Agile]

Virtually all combi boilers are LARGER than the heat only boiler you needed.

 

[muggles]

You've been done over it seems, but well done for not paying them as it seems they may be in breach of contract, in which case you don't currently owe them anything. What does their estimate / quotation say? Are you able to post it on here (minus any identifying details?). Did you sign anything agreeing to the change from the original spec?

The flow rate from a combi is never going to be as good as your Megaflo was; even a Highflow is likely to disappoint. The only solution here is to insist that your Megaflo is returned to you, and a suitable alternative boiler is provided, maybe from a different manufacturer if Woofter Bodge ones are too big to fit in the space.

 

[HootingOwl]

Oh dear. Wrong boiler. The trouble is that they are Worcester accredited which means they will only look at Worcester products.

In your case, there was not enough clearance for a WORCESTER boiler and the cylinder. But a different manufacturer would have had a boiler that would do the job perfectly. Worcester want 300mm around flue in all directions, whereas some manufacturers allow a reduction to 25mm on one side.

This is what happens when you get drawn in by marketing. You have shelled out 2k+ and will have to take it all out. Hope you kept the megaflow.

As said above, you have been mugged off. Complain. Loudly.

 

[ServiceNumpty]

I;m rather confused by all this. Surely at the survey stage any issues with clearances would have been brought up. Did they have the combi boiler in the van?. If you agreed to have a replacement boiler for your megaflo cylinder, then you should be able to have a replacement boiler whichever manufacturer would fit. You will have recourse if you kick up stink with Trusted Trader, Checkatrade & Worcester Bosch, none of these organisations want bad publicity, and the company must have a documented complaints procedure in place. The company looks to have been in breach of contract.
However there are 2 sides to this, and your side is a bit vague and sketchy.

 

[AGAS]

why do people spend over 2K of their hard earned money and not research of what their getting and thats not research on their own website FFS

 

[Julian Moore]

Dear Agas

I did masses of research on the boiler and agreed to the system - if they had fitted what we originally agreed it would have worked fine. Then on leaving a 3 hour work meeting at a client on the way into another meeting I get a call saying that the system is in bits across the lawn and a new boiler cannot be fitted per the spec agreed. Wife is freaking out - small children running around etc etc. So then pressure sold into an alternative system with no time to make an informed choice. I specifically raised the qn of flow vs a megaflow system and was told this would be unaffacted as the Worcester combi had really good flow; unfortunately this was a phone conversation rather than documented , as this is patently a lie. If this was the financial services industry they would be guilty of mis-selling.
.
Certainly have not been compensated for value of the megaflow cylinder either - I guess they are using that to compensate for the more expensive boiler but not a conversation that we had....

Looks like we have a bit of a mess here and I will need to kick up a stink. Less than happy as you can imagine. You do the research, hire a well reputed firm and still get ripped off.

 

[Dan Robinson]

I get a call saying that the system is in bits across the lawn and a new boiler cannot be fitted per the spec

They must have had a reason?!

Yes you have been sold a pup, and it being a phone agreement shouldn't change the validity of your position, proving it might be another thing.

Will be interesting to see what Which? Have to say on this. I doubt Wooshitter Botch will give two schits, neither will Gas Safe unless there is a safety issue.


Keep us posted!