Fluorescent tubes -> LEDs?

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Hello everyone,

I'm hoping someone can advise what I should upgrade the tubes in my garage to, or for that matter, whether I should do anything with them at all.

I've got four of these tubes mounted in office-style enclosures with reflectors directing the light down:
https://www.any-lamp.com/osram-l-58w-840-lumilux-150cm-cool-white

The ballast is I believe this one:
https://www.bltdirect.com/tridonic-t8-combo-high-frequency-ballast-2-x-58w

Anyone else switched out tubes for LED? What did you go for and why?

Many thanks!
 
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Well, a lot depends on how much you use them. The more hours they're on for the more worthwhile it becomes to change them. It's also worth noting that most replacement LED tubes have a lower light output than the fluorescent tube being replaced.

A typical 58w flu tube produces 5200 lumens when new. A typical LED replacement, such as this https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LTT524W.html uses only 24w instead of 58w, but produces only 3200 lumens.

Now, assuming the lower light output is acceptable to you, the next question is how much you save. 4x58w = 232w so 0.232 units per hour. 4x24w = 96w so 0.096 units per hour. Assuming 20p per unit, that's 4.64p per hour to run the 58w tubes or 1.92p per hour to run the 24w. So you save 2.72p per hour. Based on the price in the link, that's 1588 hours use to save the purchase price.
 
A typical 58w flu tube produces 5200 lumens when new.
However since an electronic ballast it may exceed that, so lumen per watt the LED has very little advantage over fluorescent and the fitting will need re-wiring and the electronic ballast removing.

I've got four of these tubes
So one would assume if brighter than required you simply use less lamps.

I did move from 65 watt fluorescent to 24 watt LED, the main reason was the 65 watt discontinued and the wire wound ballast designed for 240 volt not 230 volt, so the 58 watt tubes often failed to strike. It lasted 18 months, and for 12 of those months the house was empty, since rewired replaced with a 22 watt LED. Son is buying house from me and he replaced with around 16 GU10 lamps, so never got monies worth from change, but had to change due to 65 watt being discontinued and voltage dropping in the street when a load of solar panels were fitted.
 
The ballast is I believe this one:
https://www.bltdirect.com/tridonic-t8-combo-high-frequency-ballast-2-x-58w

Anyone else switched out tubes for LED? What did you go for and why?

With an E-ballast fitted I would need to have a very good reason to want to swap them over to LED, there is so little advantage to be gained. I had a 5 foot 58w tube with normal iron ballast, in my utility room. When the tube failed, I considered whether to swap the ballast for an e-ballast or an LED. I decided with the side spread of light needed, an e-ballast was the better option.
 
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.... It's also worth noting that most replacement LED tubes have a lower light output than the fluorescent tube being replaced.
Whilst that is certainly true, as I have reported before, whenever I have changed fluorescent tubes to LED ones of the same length (usually a bit under half of the wattage, and about two-thirds of the light output, of the fluorescent) I have always found that the amount of light produced by the LED replacement was more than enough for my requirements - suggesting that the light output of the fluorescent had been 'unnecessarily high'.

I suppose that's not particularly surprising since, in contrast with the situation with incandescent bulbs, one could not get a range of wattages/light outputs for particular length of fluoro tube.

Kind Regards, John
 
I rather think that the light output of LEDs (certainly when new) is greater that the old lamps that they are supposed to be "equivalent" to.

I have a few times taken out new LEDs and replaced them with less bright ones.

(I do check the Lumen rating before buying)
 
I rather think that the light output of LEDs (certainly when new) is greater that the old lamps that they are supposed to be "equivalent" to. .... (I do check the Lumen rating before buying)
Not really an issue when replacing fluorescents, but when people replace incandescent bulbs with LEDs, the replacements often produce light of much shorter wavelength (i.e. more blue/white) than did the incandescents they are replacing, and I imagine that may well have something to do with the difference between perceived relative brightness and measured (in lumens) relative brightness of the two sources of light?

Kind Regards, John
 
I rather think that the light output of LEDs (certainly when new) is greater that the old lamps that they are supposed to be "equivalent" to.

I have a few times taken out new LEDs and replaced them with less bright ones.

You should also take into account that the human eye is not that sensitive to changes in light level, it is well able to compensate. It is not so able to perform well, where there are bright patches of light, mixed with dimmer areas.
 
You should also take into account that the human eye is not that sensitive to changes in light level, it is well able to compensate. It is not so able to perform well, where there are bright patches of light, mixed with dimmer areas.
This is very true, living room old house had 2 x 100 watt pearl tungsten bulbs, swapped to 2 chandeliers each with 3 bulbs normally 60 watt as the 2 x 100 watt not really bright enough, as the CFL came in, dropped seem to remember 11 watt, looked rotten so we changed to chandeliers for 2 x 5 bulb chandeliers with 10 x 8 watt golf ball Philips CFL bulbs.

This was a mistake, the bulbs were very short lived, and darn expensive, had two matching chandeliers in dinning room but 3 bulb version, and bulbs robbed from dinning room, and a larger but still golf ball design from Home Bargains were used, but limited supply.

So I had bought two 1.8 watt candle LED bulbs from Lidi, not intended for living room lights, but as temporary measure put them in, rather impressed, so next lot Lidi got were 3 watt, so another 8 x 3 watt and pleased with the result, until I tried to read, then realised not really bright enough, lucky mother with a lot smaller room also used E14 bulbs, so Lidi bulbs went to her house and we got some 5 watt LED bulbs from Home Bargains, these were bright enough.

So looking at the lumen
2 x 100 watt tungsten = 2000 lumen
6 x 60 watt tungsten = 3000 lumen
6 x 11 watt CFL = 3000 lumen
10 x 8 watt CFL = 3000 lumen however they seemed dimmer.
8 x 3 watt + 2 x 1.8 watt LED = 2400 lumen
10 x 5 watt LED = 4600 lumen however it seemed no brighter that the 6 x 60 watt tungsten
What we need to remember in the days of a tungsten pearl light bulb we did not have lumen on the packet, so the values are from a web site which is likely comparing a clear bulb, which does not spread the light in same way as pearl, no way did the 11 watt CFL give out as much light as the 60 watt bulbs they replaced, but the web sites try to claim they did, but my eyes are also clearly older, so likely now I need more light.

Using a lux meter I found did not relate to perceived light, we tried flashing LED lights and over driving them, so double current for half time flashing was fast enough we could not see they were flashing, and to our eyes they seemed brighter, but the lux meter showed no change. Did the experiment with cheap red LED's so did not try reading with the light, but a light switched on/off 100 times a second looks brighter than one powered with smoothed DC to human eye, until you try reading in the light.

I have had some very odd results using a camera, my DSLR may say 1/2000 second, but really it is 1/250 second, the focal plain starts to close before it has fully opened so it scans the scene. So taking a picture of a wagon the cab can be crystal clear but trailer blurred as I was following the cab as I pivoted, not trailer and likely slowed before the shutter fully closed.

The same with LED, it can be very good, but also you can get a banding if the LED is being flashed. However the camera light meter is a really good way to compare lighting. But try reading under the light rather than seeing how bright it seems.
 
The ball park has changed, when I fitted a LED to replace fluorescent it cost around £22, now down to £8 and the fluorescent tubes seem to have gone up in price. You can get LED with high output a 38 watt tube 4560 lumen, but price back to £30, so changing whole fitting is actually cheaper, around £24.

But back to start, how much light do you need? In the main the fluorescent tube was selected due to the spread of light rather than amount of light, so dropping from 4600 lumen to 2300 lumen is not a problem, however when the light is required, then swap whole fitting is the answer if you want LED.

A fluorescent lamp takes time to ignite so using LED gives light at the flick of a switch, but the ballast used with fluorescent absorbs surges without normally failing, but the LED can be damaged by surges, both around same output per watt, so very much swings and roundabouts as to which is best.
 
A fluorescent lamp takes time to ignite so using LED gives light at the flick of a switch, but the ballast used with fluorescent absorbs surges without normally failing, but the LED can be damaged by surges, both around same output per watt, so very much swings and roundabouts as to which is best.

The striking of an e-ballast is also near instant. Not all LED's are instant on, my latest ones have around a one second delay, before the light after switch on. My e-ballast can beat that, but both do produce full output at switch on (almost).
 
But back to start, how much light do you need? In the main the fluorescent tube was selected due to the spread of light rather than amount of light, so dropping from 4600 lumen to 2300 lumen is not a problem, however when the light is required, then swap whole fitting is the answer if you want LED.
Yes, that's the very point I made above.

Fluorescent tubes were generally selected on the basis of their length (i.e. in relation to the 'length' of what they were required to illuminate). A given length of tube gave one little, if any, choice of wattage, and I think that often resulted in tube(s) being used which were unnecessarily high in wattage and light output ... as i said, whenever I've replaced a fluorescent tube with an LED one of the same length (generally about two-thirds of the claimed ' light output'), the LED one has proved more than adequate for the purpose.

Kind Regards, John
 
The striking of an e-ballast is also near instant. Not all LED's are instant on, my latest ones have around a one second delay, before the light after switch on. My e-ballast can beat that, but both do produce full output at switch on (almost).
Yes my smart LED bulbs do take a little longer to switch on, however the e-ballast is not more a ballast than an electronic transformer is a transformer.
 

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