Garage conversion

[mkb]

Just had a quote for garage conversion !!!! Do I live on a different planet or am I tight git with no comprehension of the rates builders are charging these days.
These were my thoughts...don't start laughing yet if I'm miles out.
Live in Manchester ( So not London prices )
Garage door removed 2 hours ?
Hole dug for footings ( if required ) and wall built and window installed....3 days ?
Flooring...screed, damp proof ,timber, or whatever....2 days ?
Knock through from hallway, make good and put in frame and doorway....2 days?
Studded wall at opposite end with another entrance door....2 days ?
Plasterboard and skim interior.....3 days ?
Plumb in 2 new radiators....2 days ?
I'll sort out all electrics
Think the above is reasonable..Now materials...guessing a bit;
Window £250..bricks £150..plasterboard and plaster £150..timber for studded walls and 2 doors and frames..£250..rads £230 floor,screed or timber or whatever £300
Materials = £1330
Labour 14 days at £150 per day = £2100
Total = £3430
Then add £1000 coz my materials are too cheap...then add £1000 to labour coz, I don't know...ermm the builder is a woman and I fancy her..that comes to £5340...So where the hell does £ 7000 come from.
Your thoughts please

 

[hotrod]

£150 /day labour is reasonable for manc. Can't advise on mat costs or quants as you've not given sizes.

 

[mkb]

Thanks hotrod,
Just average size garage actually...bout 13 foot by 8 foot.
The garage and bedroom above were built bout 10 years ago so garage is double skinned with insulation and ceiling is fireproofed to comply with building regs when it was done.

 

[mkb]

Thinking now of managing the project myself and getting tradesmen in ...I know a few. Big question though is what base do I need for the floor. At the moment it's concrete so what's the process....screed ? damp proof membrane ? And also do you think I'd need footings where the garage door is and a new window is put in ? There is a steel lintel at the moment above the garage door.
Thanks all.

 

[mkb]

Bit confused now about the garage floor. Concrete at the moment and had two builders round to look at the job. Similar price BUT the first one said he'd put damp proof membrane down and screed over as not enough height to timber floor it. Second builder comes round and says....sand onto existing concrete floor and then damp proof membrane over that then insulation ( as much as possible ) then chipboard !!! He says what builder one proposes for the floor WILL NOT pass building inspection !!! Who the hell's right and who's wrong ??

 

[sotal]

builder 2 sounds right to me, you won't get past building regs if you don't have any insulation under there.

 

[^woody^]

Obviously the builder has no van to maintain and run, no machinery to maintain/run/replace, no finance payments for his business, no overheads at all for running his business, pays no tax or any other sort of expense, and gets all his stuff from the same place as you got your prices from, and it all magically appears on site without him needing to tour around or spend half a night working out how much stuff he needs and where to get it from.

Nor has he done (and paid for) any training at all, and does not spend any time keeping up to date on building regs or current practice, so that he can do a job correctly first time and not spend twice as long doing a crap job which then needs correcting

Why don't you just buy all the stuff and then employ someone to do it (or DIY) and just give set days or hours to do every task and see how you go?

But don't forget you will then need to source all the free advice on internet forums, rather than pay a builder for it

 

[mkb]

Cheers Sotal...obviously will have to mention this point to builder 1.
'Woody' not sure if you're having a go at me or not but I don't expect the job done for peanuts...coz you get monkeys !! But I don't think I'm in the wrong to get a couple of quotes, recommendations etc., I think the prices I came up with in my original post were fairly accurate...but if they're way off Woody what do you think a more realistic breakdown would be. Any advice appreciated mate.

 

[sotal]

From looking at your estimated times, I'd say you've gone over the top a bit on times. 2 days to plumb in 2 rads is more than enough - I would expect them done in a day. Studded wall should take 1/2 a day to a day at most.

Materials I'd say were a bit low, but once you've added your £1000 fudge factor amount it would be about right.


I'm careful with money too and don't like throwing money away! I'd expect it all done and in for £5k at an absolute max.

I can see where woody is coming from but I have to disagree a little. The day rate should reflect the overheads and include them.

I'm self employed but not in the building trade. I charge an hourly or daily rate. If I'm quoting for a large job it will be my best guess at how many days it will take plus a contingency factor incase the job takes too long. I won't start charging extra on top of that for my rent or finance, and my years at university or tax etc

So although I can see where woody is coming from I do have to disagree with logic

 

[theoldun]

Interesting post in a quaint sort of way.
Just to satisfy ourselves we have run together a few figures for a one man band, non VAT registered, with public liability 1.75 tonne truck and all the normal odds and sods.
Labour rate based on £160.00 a shift. Allowance included for wet days, tine lost waiting for BCI and for all running about. As foundation required to comply with regs, skip allowed for disposal of muck away, garage door, knock through and all surplus materials and final clean. As no U value required for floor given and the difference of garage floor level and house floor level not given, difference has been assumed to be 150mm To achieve current U values floor can be done two different ways. Both ways are covered in our price No electrics or decorations allowed for.
£4740.00 includes 20% overheads and profit. If builder VAT registered. Then add approx £436.00 as VAT is already included in materials price
That is what it could be done for. Whether you can get it done for that is another matter.
One other thing we agree 100% with Woodies post. If you think he is having a dig at yer, then good for him, but in our opinion he is trying to educate you in a kind and friendly fashion.
Our price would be £6210.00 VAT inclusive, and we would not be bothered whether you take it or leave it.

Just noticed the post from sotal, and rather surprised that a gentleman who is already seeking advice on this forum for insulating and screeding a concrete floor and how to insulate a half brick wall, has suddenly turned into a QS capable of taking of and pricing a Bill of Quantities.
oldun

 

[sotal]

I'm no expert and was just expressing my opinion based on my little experience.

I've renovated 2 houses and that's it - I'm fairly competent - and do most jobs without questioning. Where I'm not sure I like to look up what I should do to make sure it is done right - no point rushing and getting it wrong. When I can't find a definite answer I will ask for advice - and appreciate all advice I get.

I do however have a lot of business experience which is what I was really wanting to comment on. The other part was based on the fact that I know I can plumb in two rads in copper in a room that size within a day including going to the shop to get the rads and copper pipe. I also know I could knock up a 4x2 stud wall in a day - probably half a day. I didn't comment on the other parts as I either thought they sounded about right or I didn't know how long they would take.

As I say just my opinion based on my experience and I'm no expert but I would say the original poster is likeminded in the fact that they realise how long it will take and what it will really cost and they're questioning why the builder has added a couple of grand.

Also I take it the question I asked on correctly insulating a half brick wall isn't so obvious as nobody has been able to answer it

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Also I take it the question I asked on correctly insulating a half brick wall isn't so obvious as nobody has been able to answer it

You're really on the verge of embarrassing yourself on here frankly, parts of your other post barely make sense apart from posting the bones of a question that's answered about 10 times a week on here. Advice to the OP is as ever get a few quotes then he'll know what's fair and what isn't. Brain surgery it isn't.

 

[^woody^]

Woody what do you think a more realistic breakdown would be. Any advice appreciated mate.

You need to look at this differently, otherwise you will be mistrusting the builder and questioning every cost and length of time it takes to do anything.

Get several quotes and see what the market rates are. It does not matter if you think that something should take a day to do and cost £50, what matters is what builders are charging for particular work. Some have high overheads, some next to none. Some get good discounts at the merchants, some not so good.

Personally, I think that £50 for 5 minutes at the dentist is too much, so is £200 for a Solicitors letter of a few lines, and so is £100k for 90 minutes on football pitch. But if that is what the market rates are, then so be it

 

[mkb]

Cheers Sotal, and Woody too, and others. I agree with you Woody about the dentist etc, everyone has a price but don't want to get get ripped off, if that's not too strong a statement.
Had 2 quotes yesterday...one at £2700 and one at between £2600 - £3000. Both are local builders with good reputation and I've seen both their work...so my problem solved. These are what I consider more reasonable estimates for this area and I believe my original estimate for time taken to do the job and materials was fair.
'theoldun' when you say 'labour based on £160 a shift' I understand what you mean...but 'allowance included for wet days' ? Do you mean there is an extra charge to me in case it rains and you can't work ??? Is that where your £4740 comes from ? So if it rains for 10 days in a row you lose out and if it doesn't rain at all I get some money back !!!???