garden wall woes

[sunny11]

Our detached property, on a bank has a back garden that about 8 metres above the ground level which is held back from the garage by a breeze block wall.

There used to be a shed in front of it, but I took that down in the spring as there was less shed than there was gap in the planking, and that's when I discovered that the garden wall had a massive diagonal crack going through it and, worse, part of it is leaning against the garage.

Luckily, the garage is a sturdy, metal girder construction, so having the wall against it doesn't seem to have affected it and the more exposed part of the wall is out of the way of any through fare, so I didn't consider it any sort of emergency... that is, not until someone suggested that if the exposed area fell, then it was possible that our oil tank, sitting on the upper level of the garden, just above the wall, would go with it.

I have now had a structural engineer look at the damage and his initial, verbal assessment (after the usual intake of breath that I'm getting used to) was that the wall needed to be removed and rebuilt to a higher spec than had been the case probably 50 or so years ago. The conservative estimate is £20,000!!!

I know these things can't be done on the cheap, but that is an eye-watering sum that we just won't be able to meet.

If anyone else has any suggestions on how we might tackle this, I'd be hugely grateful.

For info, our house is quite high, on a bank, with access to the area only via the garage (personnel door at the front) and up a steep set of steps from the side. Basically, virtually impossible - umm, make that definitely impossible without lifting equipment, to get a digger into.

Thanks

Sunny

 

[noseall]

For info, our house is quite high, on a bank, with access to the area only via the garage (personnel door at the front) and up a steep set of steps from the side. Basically, virtually impossible - umm, make that definitely impossible without lifting equipment, to get a digger into.

Thanks

Sunny

Listen............all you can hear is the tumbleweed, the gentle hiss of the wind and a low rumbling as all the construction companies dive for cover.

Sounds like the logistical job from hell!

 

[i_am_fubar]

Very descriptive post. But pictures would help.

While the most economical way to repair your wall may be to re-build it, all you really have to do is make it safe.

There could be an arrangement of brick / steel / wood that could allow you to support it to make it safe. Though it would probably not look to great.

With some inventive planning, you could quite possibly then re-build the wall in sections as money allows.

 

[sunny11]

Hi, well the first reply to my post was much as I expected, and i-am-fubar's name is exactly how I feel at the moment!

I'll take some pix and post.

Trouble is I'm now wondering what other horrors this house might throw up - we moved here nearly 8 years ago and there always seems to be something, that needs money spending on it, but this one is beyond my whole experience.

A few years ago my Brother in Law sold up their beautiful black and white cottage for peanuts on the day he got the news that it was subsiding. At the time nobody could understand why he would do such a thing, but this week I know exactly why he did it. ¬

 

[sunny11]

Hi

I've taken some photos of the wall. To the right of number 3, half way up the pic is our kitchen door and the oil tank is directly above the wall opposite the door.

Just realised I should have taken some photos of the access (or lack of it as the case may be). How we will get any sort of digging equipment in there (other than 6 men with shovels) I have no idea.

Thanks

Sunny

Untitled

• sunny11
• 23 Aug 2013
• 1

Untitled

• sunny11
• 23 Aug 2013
• 1

Untitled

• sunny11
• 23 Aug 2013
• 1

[/img]

 

[i_am_fubar]

you said 8 meters in your first post. Is that supposed to be 8 feet, or does the wall terrace up? and 8m retaining wall is a rather epic construction. Got any pics from a bit further away to show whats happening above the wall (so from ground level to top)?

I've done a lot of digging by hand, and it's a pain but not impossible. What level of DIY input are you prepared to put in?

Fubar.

 

[sunny11]

Hi Yes

Sorry, I did mean 8ft. I'm of an age where my head still works in old money, so I end up mixing the two!

Yes, I'll take some pics from above tonight. The length of the area is about 15ft (I think that's right) and is quite thick with shrubbery (another possible contributing factor) so the wall is not visible at all from the top of the garden.

Sunny.

 

[i_am_fubar]

Could you build a new wall in front of that one, then fill the gap with gravel. Saves the removal of the old one.

You would HAVE to shore up the old wall while digging foundation for the new one else the old one will collapse on you.

To save having to deal with much of the issues of straight retaining wall strength, you could curved the wall inward, similar to a dam:

Should come in much under 20k if you DIY some of it or get some friends help. Recommend you contact a structural engineer if your not 100% confident to calc dims yourself.[/img]

 

[sunny11]

Hi Fubar

Apologies for the delay in responding to your last suggestion... LOL if its possible to build something to hold that amount of backed up water, you'd think my little wall wouldn't be such an issue!!!

I have attached a couple more photos - I just can't seem to get them to orientate the right way, I don't have as sophisticated picture editor options as I have at work!

The one photo is of the wall from the down the steps out of our garden and the other is of the garden - as you can see, the shrubbery is well established so there is no view of the wall from that aspect.

If it wasn't for the oil tank situation (and I'm currently investigating if we can re-site it) then I would be inclined to let whatever will happen to the wall take its course... unfortunately, however, it may be the only other place suitable for the tank is in the area precisely where the wall is likely to collapse to...

Untitled

• sunny11
• 27 Aug 2013
• 1

Untitled

• sunny11
• 27 Aug 2013
• 1

 

[rjm2k]

Can you not just put a new shed up? it could have been like that for a decade or more.

As already suggested, if you have the space you could leave it in situ and build something more suitable in front of it, maybe pumped concrete with rebar and some anchors going down into the mound?

 

[i_am_fubar]

Hmmm, Doesn't look as bad as your first post made out.

I would personally consider building a new wall in front of it. But then build maybe 2 piers out from it and use them and the new retaining wall as three new walls for a new shed. You would need to ensure your drainage is managed properly though. If you stick a drain pipe at the bottom of the void between the two walls then fill the gab between them with gravel you should be ok (end of drain pipe coming through wall at both sides).

See my posts here about building the physical wall. I recommend at minimum 9" blocks with rebar and concrete in em.

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=215729&start=0

As to getting the tools in to do it. You get no sympathy from me, I've just spent the weekend digging down to underpin some foundations. That was over a meter of smashing though concrete, chipping through flint laden clay and hacking back roots... All by hand (and without beer )

Fubar.

 

[sunny11]

@rjm2K,= believe me, I've considered sticking a shed in front of it and ignoring it... all this started because I was going to exchange the old, dilapidated shed with a greenhouse... Do you know that feeling that you wish you'd left well alone, even it it was a huge eyesore?

 

[sunny11]

Fubar,

Its really encouraging that the situation doesn't look as bad as I described it (or maybe it still feels).

Thank you for your suggestions - a wall in front to of the existing one would make sense, although I'm not sure how I'd get in to do anything about the length behind the garage. Although the garage wall is holding it up manfully at the moment, the CS sounded a warning about the possibility of the bottom kicking out and damaging the garage wall - not sure what he meant and if he was just scaring me, but it sounded serious.

Anyway, thank you for taking the time to look at my posts, and giving advice on my building problem. Its still a headache, but its good to know we may have some options.

By the way, when you say "by hand" I'm assuming you had some sort of digging tools and was the lack of beer by choice or accident???

 

[i_am_fubar]

Well, ok, yes, I had a sledge hammer to get through the concrete, a metal spike to break the dirt up and a broken spade to scoop the loose material out. And lack of beer wasn't through choice, more not wanting to give the missus anything else to worry about :/

Do you know what your soil make up is? if it's gravely sandy soil, then there is a chance that the old wall could blow quite quickly when the shed is removed. Clay, especially stony clay soil will generally take a long time to move under its own weight. In both cases, if the ground is waterlogged, or if you've had heavy rain in the past week or two, your wall may be acting as a dam and I wouldn't advise disturbing it at all untill the soil has had a chance to dry out. This could be the reason your original wall failed as I see no weep holes.

Have a look at scaffolding poles and concrete floor anchors as rigging a temporary support to hold the wall up while you remove the garage.

Fubar.

 

[sunny11]

Hi Fubar

Well, the good news is that our soil is clay-ey and very stoney, the bad is that removing the garage would be almost as major a job as the wall is going to be, hence the suggested option to work from behind the wall rather than in front of it... that and trying not to kill any workmen!

Although the garage looks sectional, its a serious construction of metal girders and concrete blocks (hence the reason it hasn't shifted under the weight of the wall)... and to add insult to injury, the roof is asbestos - which I know isn't necessarily an issue, that is until you ask someone to replace it and then all hell lets loose!

So, that is why I wondered how we build in front of the exposed part of the wall without tackling the rest of its length and am pretty sure that we are probably beyond FUBARd! Our options are limited and the ones we do have are seriously grim!

However, on a mooch around this site, while trying comfort myself with the fact that we may not be the only people in the world to find ourselves with a property disaster from the pit of Hell, I spotted your diy disasters posts and truly feel for your pain! Actually, more to the point, truly feel for your wife's pain!!!

Actually, I know this may not be your expertise as you seem to tackle your jobs by hand, but maybe someone might be able to advise what options we might have for getting a digger up steps, round beds and across our patio to the garden? Are micro diggers popular with builders nowadays?

Thanks

Sunny