Gas pictures

[i_am_fubar]

No questions this time. But I said I would upload some pictures:

Untitled

• i_am_fubar
• 8 May 2013
• 1

Untitled

• i_am_fubar
• 8 May 2013
• 1

When the new boiler was put in. the pipes were all taken back to where the old boiler was. over 50% of the water pipe was redundent and is now stripped out.

Going to the boiler, there are 5 Elbows's and 1 Tee in the kitchen alone. Many more under the floor upstairs.

Likewise, there are 5 elbows just to take the gas to the hob (to the right, out of shot), even though there is a blanked off gas point right behind it.

Fubar.

 

[i_am_fubar]

Just ran the maths from the uk copper board website. Assuming the boiler has a 30kW output, and thus a higher input. There is no way in hell 15mm is big enough to carry the required gas flow over that length of piping. Guess I should leave enough room for 22mm.

What pipe size would ordinarily be run in the kitchen floor slab? (ok, so maybe 1 question).

Fubar.

 

[Agile]

Gas pipes should as far as possible NOT be buried in floor slabs!

The gas pipe sizes need to be calculated and would not usually be less than 22 mm on the way to a boiler and often 28 mm for part or all of the way.

You still seem intent on fitting pipes to be used for gas yourself.

Whilst that may not result in the police arresting you it is still not something to be encouraged when there are plenty of qualified people available to do it for you and correctly.

Tony

 

[i_am_fubar]

Hi Tony,

I'm aware the preference is not to bury pipes in slabs, however, they are already in there and I was just wondering what size they would be.

I'm aware of the need to calculate the pipe sizes and associated pressure drops, hence my realisation that what is already there is in no way big enough.

At no point in this post have I implied any intent to run my own pipes, though from my last thread, I understand you comment. The OP was simply to show what I'm already contending with.

Though, for piece of mind, be aware I have been in contact with qualified engineers at this point and am in the process of arranging a consulation.

Besides, running my own or not, I need to make allowances in my other pipe work to fit gas in. I don't want to spend hours running all my pipes neatly to fit into boxing only to have a gas engineer ruin my layout

Fubar

 

[Phill Peck]

Get the gas engineer to fit his pipe first then

 

[i_am_fubar]

I've had a gas safe engineer round now. I'm curious about a few of the things he said and would like some additional opinions (assuming I'm allowed to ask about that).

First of all, he said he could, but would rather not, utilise the current ferrus pipe from meter to gas points. This is ok and we're replacing the entire run with copper.

He said he would run 28mm from the garage, split it under the floor in the landing and run 2x 22mm pipes in parallel, one to feed the boiler (~3m run) the other to reduce down to 15 above the kitchen for the hob (~5m of 22, then ~5m of 15). This was under the premise of splitting the supply as close to the meter as possible (rather than having 1 pipe with spurs from it). Is this normal practice?

He also confirmed (against my understanding) that normal plumbing flux and solder were suitable for gas.

He was happy for us to buy the pipe and fittings, cut and run them, providing we let him do the final solder connections. He did stipulate that we needed to be 50mm from the bottom of the floor boards at all times and 150mm from any electrical cables. Though proximity to other pipes wasn't an issue. Is this correct? 150mm seems a lot for cable isolation (though I could understand it from switchs, CU's, breakers... etc).

Cheers,
Fubar.

 

[Agile]

Generally most hobs could usually be fed with 15 mm but that does depend on their consumption.

Any solder is suitable and most fluxes are.

A gas pipe needs to be 25 mm from a cable and 150mm from an electrical fitting.

Being 50 mm below floorboards is not a regulation but very sensible to prevent any nails through pipes.

I am happy to let DIYers fit and cut pipes as long as I do all the soldering.

Tony

 

[i_am_fubar]

Cheers Tony,

It's a 4 burner hob at the moment, but we're looking to upgrade to a 6/8 burner range cooker (elec ovens) with wok ring.

What about the supply splitting as close as posible to meter? I have an electronics background and it's normal to split PCB traces close to the entry point for high current loads (comparative to the 31kW boiler) and low current loads (comparative to the stove) so that impule changes from the high load device don't cause fluctuations in the low load device. I imagine it carries across to pipes carrying fluid.

Fubar.

 

[Agile]

Its good to split supplies at meter.

Although not often done by gas installers.

Smaller pipes are easier to run and could work out cheaper too.

Make sure your engineer has full details of the range you want to fit. I would have thought most would need no more that 3m of 15 mm.

Tony

 

[i_am_fubar]

Cheers again Tony,

Figured as much. Will keep with the 28mm up into the cieling above the garage and split there. Your comment about the range has me thinking about future proofing the system. Will bring 22mm into the kitchen and reduce down to 15 for the final meter or so.

At least that'll cover all bases if we get a bigger hob, gas oven, seperate water heater... etc with minimum disruption.

I imagine bent pipe is better than using elbows. By extension, is it better to use two 45 degree bends than an elbow? Or is it a negligable difference?

Cheers,
Fubar.

 

[i_am_fubar]

Well, gas safe guy has come round and soldered up my pipe run and connected to boiler. Getting him back for a boiler commision once I've pressure tested all the wet pipes and charged them.

The final connection to meter and boiler aside, I have to say it was painful to see someone spending 3 hours at gas engineer prices soldering a bunch of joints that don't look as tidy as mine. Need to go round and clean all the flux off them as I've already got huge streaks of green

But before anyone jumps down my throat about it's not how they look, it's how secure the joints are, gas tight... etc I understand why the liable person would want to be the one to do the soldering. Just painfull to pay the prices for what I'm 100% sure I could have done just as well, and just that bit neater.

Fubar.

 

[Agile]

It is part of the process of making a joint to use a damp cloth to wipe off excess flux!

We dont have a very good opinion of him!

Some will also be thinking that he is probably not that good and only people like him will be getting involved with someone like you who would prefer to DIY much of the work instead of having it done by a professional ( or in your case a lesser professional perhaps! )

Tony

 

[Tibbot]

I have to say it was painful to see someone spending 3 hours at gas engineer prices soldering a bunch of joints that don't look as tidy as mine.

But before anyone jumps down my throat about it's not how they look, it's how secure the joints are, gas tight... etc I understand why the liable person would want to be the one to do the soldering. Just painfull to pay the prices for what I'm 100% sure I could have done just as well, and just that bit neater.

Whatever pain you feel is no more than we in the trade do by paying to be allowed to make the same joints for gas as we do for water.

That said, a pro should make joints both neat and secure.

 

[Dan Robinson]

I'm wondering what the point of the OP's post is?

Perhaps someone should send him a blue Peter badge?

 

[i_am_fubar]

I'm not questioning the guys competancy, but a DIYer will generally put a lot more TLC into their work as they have to live with it.

Tibbot, I can understand that. Though the gas training covers far more than just soldering pipes.

Tony, He was a gas safe engineer, the term 'people like him' is somewhat irrelevent as that qualification should be a black or white. Trained, compentent and certified OR untrained, incompetent and un-certified. After being told (both out of common sense and legality) to get a gas safe engineer in, I don't then expect to have to find one who is better than another.

As to me DIYing a lot of it. I drilled holes, cut and bent pipe and mounted clips to his satisfaction. Are you saying that even that should be outside the remit of untrained persons?

And Dan, my original post was to show an example of bad DIY gas work. Then to voice some opinions about the gas safe scheme. What is the point of your post outside of sarcasm?

Fubar.