Gas Regulations

[Alan703]

I would be grateful if someone can clarify

Gas Safety (installation and use) regulations 1998
Regulation 19 paragraph 4

I would like to know how far through the cavity's the sleeve should go.

My house has

An exterior brick wall
Cavity
Sterling board / weatherproof membrane
Cavity/stud work
Interior plasterboard/back of living flame fire.

My understanding is the sleeve should go all the way from the outside of the exterior wall to the living flame fire appliance, and be sealed where it enters the appliance, and at the exterior wall - which would make it "gas tight"

The gas regulations (regulation 19) state

"(4) Paragraph (3) shall not apply to the installation of installation pipework
connected to a living flame effect fire provided that the pipework in the cavity is as
short as is reasonably practicable, is enclosed in a gas tight sleeve and sealed at
the joint at which the pipework enters the fire; and in this paragraph a “living flame
effect gas fire” means a gas fire -

(a) designed to simulate the effect of a solid fuel fire;
(b) designed to operate with a fanned flue system; and
(c) installed within the inner leaf of a cavity wall."



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[Agile]

Yes, but you are not meant to be installing gas pipes!

You are meant to be employing a gas reg person!

Tony

 

[Alan703]

Hi Tony,

I'm not installing them, I am just seeking to clarify that specific regulation.

I am actually querying an existing installation by a registered CORGI engineer/developer, that was done 6 1/2 years ago, but has only come to light now - as you don't see what's behind a wall unless you're there for something else - in my case - draught hunting.

You're answer was yes - is that Yes, it should bridge the external and internal cavity?

Thanks

 

[Dan Robinson]

Yes.

 

[Alan703]

So if that's the case - every single house on my development has supply pipes not in keeping with the regulations.

What can be done about it?

 

[Dan Robinson]

Call an rgi and get the problem rectified.

It will probably be at your expense now though. But worth a call to gas safe.

 

[Alan703]

In my eyes, they failed to instal it to regulations - which are produced in the interest of safety. They should be made to fix it. I was thinking about asking the home insurance company, as I have legal cover with that, and I'm sure they wouldn't want to pay out for the side of a house if it was down to being incorrectly fitted gas pipes.


In the motor industry, if something is found to have been fitted in a way that could endanger lives - it gets rectified with a safety recall, no matter how old.

Ie, my mums 2002 Honda just had a recall this year - 9 years old, well out of warranty.

 

[Tibbot]

Pointless analogy. You're comparing a manufacturer's safety recall against work carried out by persons unknown who may have been knocked for money in the first place.

 

[Agile]

You have not explained the situation in your property in detail.

One has to look at the seriousness of any infringement!

In most cases it would just be classed as "Not to Current Standards".

Regardless there is the Stature of Limitation which for most things prevents civil legal action after six years have passed.

Tony

 

[Alan703]

Not to be funny, but what more detail do you need and why. I could write a very long story - but there is no need. It's a simple question I have asked.

I've quoted the regulations that a CORGI registered engineer should adhere to, explained that they were current at the time the house was built and living flame fire installed in the inner cavity.

I've asked here for a qualified engineers interpretation of those regulations on how far through the wall (external & internal cavities) a supply pipe should be sleeved, and where it would be sealed to confirm to the "gas tight" part of the regulation. The regulation to me is quite clear - sealed at the point the pipework enters the fire.

And what happens if someone doesn't follow the regulations.

I have confirmed my installation is not to standard with gas safe, and now need to rectify it.

Would you seal a gas pipe in your own wall knowing it's not to standard? Or turn a blind eye to one in your home that you know is not to standard?

I will maybe leave my question in the hands of gas safe, HSE and a solicitor.

 

[GavThePlumber]

I will maybe leave my question in the hands of gas safe, HSE and a solicitor.

Yep, do that good luck and get back to us with the outcome.

 

[Alan703]

So the regulations don't have to be followed? If it's not a "serious" infringement?

How serious is it if one day there's a rupture in my supply pipe, the escaping gas collects in the cavity behind the fire, then blows up and wipes us out when we're sat right in front of it watching TV, or lighting the fire in the middle of winter?

Granted this sort of thing doesn't happen all the time - but they do happen - and the regulations are there to help prevent them.

 

[Alan703]

I will maybe leave my question in the hands of gas safe, HSE and a solicitor.

Yep, do that good luck and get back to us with the outcome.

I am already on that case - I was hoping on here I would find registered gas engineers that would verify my understanding of the regulations, while I wait for a response from gas safe and the nationwide developer.

 

[GavThePlumber]

Refer to post 6 in this thread, you have absolutely no other recourse.

Edit: Well if it is a new build, you may be covered by NHBC, unlikely though

 

[Alan703]

Refer to post 6 in this thread, you have absolutely no other recourse.

Understood - but I find it shocking that a registered engineer can do work behind walls that does not follow regulations and sign it off himself, that no one is likely to see again unless there is a problem, and get away with it if he's not found out within 6 years.