Getting rid of the Rayburn - which premium brand of boiler?

[Nozzle]

I'm getting rid of the Rayburn, which currently serves DHW, Rads, some UFH and the cooking.

I will be replacing it with a premium-brand gas boiler, designed to last with actual spares back-up if required. I think I need what is termed a heat-only boiler - the pump and diverter valves being external to the boiler? (Please confirm my thinking is correct).

I recognise a modern condensing boiler is a lot more complicated that the Rayburn, with more moving parts etc, but I appreciate simplicity (with that comes reliability). For this reason I had initially picked Intergas, but I'm stuggling to find a local installer who knows the product well. (I'm chasing the contacts on the intergas website). I also have a concern that being smaller firm that spares might be harder to get, even from the continent.

What other PREMIUM brands of heat-only mains gas boilers, vent out the top rather than the back are worth consideration?

Should I be thinking about OpenTherm compatibility?

Boiler efficiency is not a consideration - mostly as getting rid of the Rayburn and replacing it with ANYTHING is the best saving I could ever make. Plus a few % here or there make a few pounds per year difference, it's just not worth getting excited about.

I'm wary of going with Worcester Bosch given the amount of slating they get here, plus a tendancy to spend big bucks on marketting may be making up for something..

I also don't like failing PCBs. That should be the most reliable part, given it is solid state. I trained as an electronics engineer (don't practice) and it really craws me to see the cheapest of cheap builds being sold for hundreds just because a diode has over heated.

Nozzle

 

[ServiceNumpty]

This part of the forum is full of Worcester Haters and Intergas Lovers. They both heat water, some have better aftersales service than others, as for reliability, its all about the way its installed. I've fitted several hundred Worcesters and breakdown rate is very low, I can count on one hand the amount of times I've called Worcester out under warranty in the last 4 years.

 

[bernardgreen]

This part of the forum is full of Worcester Haters and Intergas Lovers.

And in the world beyond this forum there be many who, with good reason, love other makes of boilers.
Some brands of boilers are sold by expensive ( and often misleading ) advertisments aimed at the general ( and for the most part ignorant ) public.
Some brands of boilers sell by reputation alone.

 

[muggles]

What's your nearest town @Nozzle ? I'm sure we can rustle up an excellent Intergas installer for you.

 

[Nozzle]

Nearest large town is Ipswich.

Nozzle

 

[bernardgreen]

can rustle up

why do I see cowboys and cattle rustling

 

[muggles]

What's your nearest town @Nozzle ? I'm sure we can rustle up an excellent Intergas installer for you.

@Razor900 any ideas?

 

[Nozzle]

It would seem ATAG might also fit my requirements. What is the word on the street with ATAG?

Nozle

 

[muggles]

ATAG is all a bit funny handshakes, don't know a huge amount about them, seem like reasonable boilers but they're direct purchase only so I don't know what spares availability would be like going forward. At least with Intergas, spares are available from multiple sources. Worth noting that a few ATAG reps resigned in unison not so long ago, make of that what you will

 

[Nozzle]

Unison? Could have been worse - they could have been Unite members.....

One such heating engineer has been over, he's told me some interesting things. Is quite keen on Ariston, recognises the bad name they used to have with respect to washing machines and the like. Reckons the R&D department with them is pretty good and customer service in the event of failure is top notch. Must admit, I am wary of a customer service department that is SO good because they may have had too much practice at re-work/repair...

Nozzle

 

[Nozzle]

Interesting, turns out the recommendation given to me by "installer 1", for an Ariston, after an initial sneer, then some research... actually is under the same ownership as ATAG

http://www.aristonthermo.com/en/

Together with some others I've not heard of - HTP, Chaffauteux, elco, NTI, Thermowatt, Racold.

So I'l look a little more at Ariston, there must be some similarities with ATAG and Aritson components. Of the two installers I've had over, none of them were keen on Intergas - but that may be lack of exposure, rather than lots of negative exposure.

Nozzle

 

[bernardgreen]

Together with some others I've not heard of -

Johnson and Starley make good boilers.

 

[vulcancontinental]

Do you see many Rolls Royces and Bently's broken down being towed? No, because they're put in a covered truck to be moved, problems are hidden by the people who sell or promote a brand.

Premium is not the way to do things, I've seen 'premium' boilers being removed after a couple of years because of poor installation.

You're the most important link in the chain followed by the installer; it's my opinion 85% of the service you get from the boiler is the customers willingness to pay for a correct install (and service regime) from an installer who knows his job but bet your bottom dollar if he's good he will also know what his knowledge is worth.

It doesn't matter if the guy hasn't fitted an Intergas before, if he's good at his job he will make sure he does know about them before he fits them. If you get a recommendation, great but the man is the important thing, it just helps if he's been on a course.

I personally don't consider Intergas a premium boiler but many like it a lot for other good reasons and now I think of it it may be the nearest gas boiler equivalent to a Rayburn, an opinion you can take either way.

 

[Nozzle]

I value the time you've taken to put your thoughts in to the thread. I recognised there's a lot of WB out there, and that Which? reviews are perhaps not as independent, or even as evidence-based as they make out. I've read interesting opinions on Vaillant too, though most are against combi boilers rather than system or heat-only. I'm particularly sceptical when I use the ATAG site to get a list of local ATAG installers, and when they turn up they're wearing branded clothing from WB.... Similar with the Intergas contacts, who when phoned couldn't actually say he'd ever fitted one and would ask around his mates.

I recognise what you say that installation is they key, and that's not something (as a customer) I have control over, other than picking a good guy to start with. And that's a minefield. All things being equal though, there are good boilers with good installations, and there are poor boilers equally good installations. I want former... who doesn't!

Stainless heat exchangers appeal to me, quality build appeals to me, ease of access appeals to me (not that I'll be doing internal repairs - but when/if it breaks down I don't want the guy to have to take it off the wall to replace a 50p component). However I do expect to be able to do DIY type things. If I need to drain the system for whatever reason, I want to be able to re-fill, prime and pressurise without someone calling FOUL as the valves are behind a naughty-naughty-customer-shall-not-go-here panel.

Nozzle

 

[vulcancontinental]

You can name any brand of boiler in addition to the ones you've named or alluded to above, it makes only a small amount of difference, it's the installer. There are plenty of installers, keep looking and keep your sh*t detector on. Most will talk a good game but I believe you'll make a decision on gut feeling. If they're enthusiastic about the boiler, and that can be justified by experience or a misplaced financial incentive induced enthusiasm, they're likely to enjoy taking it out of the box and putting it on the wall with the care the manufacturer dreams of.