Grout over recently done grout

[Siberian_Tiger]

The saga of my bathroom refurbishment goes on..I got a 'friend' to do it because he was going to give me a huge discount as I am currently a student and don't even own my (council) flat and had saved up over 10yrs for it. After having put up with no bath or shower facilities for 5 weeks, due to all his personal problems getting in the way and having to be an unpaid part time counsellor to him (plus 1 week to get some valves), it is still not done and he has started another (big) job so I do not expect to see him anymore.

I actually have paid him £800 more than his initial quote he gave as I knew he was having money problems, though tbh the quote was stupid cheap. I am resigned to the fact that I will have to finish what I can myself and get someone else for the bits I can't do. Let's say that I am very seriously considering him to be an ex-friend...

Anyhows, the problem is that he got me to buy some grout when the one he put on ran out but they didn't have the same one in the shop so he got another brand (claiming it was the same colour - it was nicobond ivory £42 compared to the £15 mapei jasmine he had - total waste of money!)..I didn't realise until the day after that it was much lighter and quite obvious so now it needs to be done again. Fortunately, it wasn't all of the bathroom but a part of it.

As the grout was done not more than a month ago, can I just get a grout rake and scrape off just a little of what he has done and then cover over the rest with the correct coloured one or do I need to completely remove the 'old' grout (they are 60x40 limestone tiles!) and then grout again from scratch?

 

[Burnerman]

Bit of a disaster, hmmm?
Anyway, if the grout that needs to be removed is in a very wet area then you need to rake out what you can before retreatment.....if its out of splash range then its not so vital.
For sure, the grout will be as hard as hell by now, unfortunately.
John

 

[Siberian_Tiger]

Yes well let's say it's worse that he is my 'friend' (acquaintance more like), as this and my fathers numerous experiences with workmen's attitude and shoddy jobs have not convinced me that you can trust a tradesman not mess you around or rip you off in some way (as per the TV shows!). This guy really is dumb, stupid, hopeless and truly a walking disaster but for some reason I attract oddball crazies like this. If I just told you what he did one Saturday turning up out of the blue with my friend there, you would be so shocked in disbelief and would question what the kind of hell friends do I have! It's really way too extreme and squeamish to publish on here....I have been VERY stressed about this whole escapade especially today so excuse me for for talking so much!

Anyway, the problem is that he has used the ivory grout in the areas where he earlier put jasmine so basically the defects are not just in one area but also in areas directly above the bath where there will be water regularly splashed on the tiles. I can't believe that someone would think that ivory and jasmine would be the same colour. He kept saying, 'it's supposed to be the same colour!' but when I looked online, I saw that Nicobond do have their own jasmine too, so this was obviously an error on his part (as well my wasting £42 on 10kg of grout that I just gave to him as I will never use it again).

I see what you say as I have pressed my fingernail on it and it is hard as a rock. I remember him saying at the time that to mix new grout on the old grout, you have to wait a while..unfortunately, I decided to try and save money (after wasting £42!) and order it on the internet but the stupid company (DQF Ltd) got my order mixed up and never delivered and I was waiting 10 days with no answer from them. Eventually I just got it from Screwfix and I told him I had it but he never came over to do it. When I would mention it to him he would say that it's easy and only going to take 2 hrs and it's no point him coming as he wouldn't have anything else to do. He had lots to do even if he didn't finish the grouting but he kept making excuses basically. On Saturday he clamped the bath panel that he put mastic on and said it needed 24hrs to set and he'd be back Monday. I didn't take the clamps off myself until Tuesday when I needed a bath but I'd have been waiting forever for him anyways lol

I was thinking to regrout myself after watching a few YouTube videos but since you are recommending most of it to be taken off, I'm just going to find someone who knows what they are doing as I might just take chips off the (very fragile) reconstructed limestone tiles.

The other issue is that all he told me was to not put water or oil on the tiles (until they had been sealed) and 80% of the time I have kept plastic covering on the floor but it is quite dirty now as he would regularly take it off when he came and walk on it with his shoes from outside and when it was raining too, much to my horror, but I trusted that he knew what he was doing. Also, when his friend painted the ceiling on Saturday, there are paint splashes on the floor and wall but I scratched some and they seem to come off without leaving a residue. He said before that the dirt can be taken off with a rubber and I hope so as there is quite a bit on it. Unfortunately, I was just putting some WD40 on the drawer sliders earlier and a little dripped on the floor so I put some talc and then soapy water and it helped but it's still there and obviously I know it's permanent now.

Is he correct with the rubber technique? What would you recommend for the dirt stains in general?

 

[AdamCH]

Limestone is very absorbent and easily marked. It's normal to seal it with something like Lithofin Stainstop before it's grouted so that the grout can be more easily cleaned from the face and then fully sealed after grouting.

You need to get it cleaned - Lithofin do a cleaner - and then seal it. It can be very absorbent and take a lot of sealer.

Scraping the grout out is just hard graft. You might be able to use a multi tool or a Dremel but it's just a pain.

 

[Siberian_Tiger]

Ah thanks. I know if he ever comes back and I mention it to him he will just say its a waste of money and rubbish it. He didn't use anything before grouting and you can see some slight grout marks where he wiped with the sponge. I know he was trying to do the cheapes possible for me but I spend lots of money and I would rather have a decent job than the cheapest, especially when it comes to tiles as any marks would be what you will immediately notice.

I found the Lithofin MN Wash & Clean and am going to order it anyways and will either do it myself or get him/another workman I will probably end up getting to come to do it.

I'm guessing that oil stains would not be cleaned by that cleaner?

 

[AdamCH]

MN Wash and Clean is just for maintenance, you need something stronger for the clean before sealing it.

You could try Power Clean or Wexa - they're listed on http://www.pureadhesion.co.uk/lithofin-tile-sealers-and-cleaners.html

When it's all clean seal it with MN StainStop - I use the non water based stuff & it works very well.

If the cleaners don't get the grease out then a poultice made from fullers earth might draw it out.

 

[Siberian_Tiger]

Ah thank you. I notice the Power Clean and Wexa have different descriptions:

Power Clean

For thorough cleaning of severe, general and greasy dirt, residues of floor care products etc. For regular cleaning of high traffic and outdoor areas like shopping centres. For final cleaning of new surfaces at building sites. Recommended for all types of natural stone but especially for polished surfaces and limestone. Acid and solvent free, highly effective, concentrate.

Wexa

Dissolves and completely removes grease and oil deposits, care product residues, wax films, soot, and similar dirt. The ideal, environmentally friendly multi purpose cleaner for use domestically as well as workshops and garages. Concentrate, mildly alkaline, universally usable.

Do they do the same thing or is one more effective (recommended) than the other?

Here is a picture of the staining, actually it does not seem like too much now but I'm just a layman!
(You can also see the different colour grouts he used lol)



With regards to the StainStop, he got me to buy the HG Impregnanting Protector (Protector 32). Is this a sufficient substitute for the StainStop or would I need to buy the StainStop also and use that before applying the HG IP?

I also notice that the HG IP label says it should be applied 4-6wks after grouting has been done to ensure it is completely dry. I'm guessing that in a wet area, a shower can not be used until after this time?

Also note: In the last picture, the tile by the door frame has cracked. He told me as it's reformed limestone, a cracked tile would need to be replaced as the sealant would not fill the crack (unlike in real limestone), plus that it would be nightmare to even take a tile off after the adhesive had dried. The floor was concrete so he used lots of plastic mesh to prevent it cracking but I think this has cracked due to being on the edge and the constant traffic from shoes. I do have a spare tile but he left it under the bath and now with the bath panel masticked, it would be largely impossible to get. The cracked part does not come off as there is sufficient adhesive on it. Is there anything you would suggest for sealing this crack? It doesn't matter if it doesn't look cosmetically great, it's only a very small area.

 

[AdamCH]

HG Natural Stone Impregnating Protector - HG Product 32 would be instead of Stainstop. I don't know how it compares as I've only used Lithofin products.

If you use HG then you might try their cleaners. Lithofin cleaners are probably compatible with HG sealers but I've always used Powerclean followed by Stainstop.

I think Wexa is very good but I don't know how it differs from Powerclean - you could give the Lithofin help line a call - I've found tiling product manufacturers very friendly and helpful in the past.

The tile shouldn't have cracked. Are you sure he put them on a full bed of adhesive and that he did all the preparation correctly?

 

[Siberian_Tiger]

I assume so but the limestone tiles I got were very cheap and turned out to not be 'real' limestone but tiles made from the powdered limestone thus they were very fragile and porous so this may have been the cause of the crack. He said he did put plastic mesh all underneath as the floor was uneven.

He actually turned up one day and painted the ceiling then he didn't come for over a week and I txt him and asked him if he wanted to come back and finish..and then couldn't help myself and launched into a tirade of complaints about whether he would find his behaviour acceptable if someone had done it to a friend or family member. He has been back twice since and done the mastic, all the electrics and today fit the shower screen so all that needs doing is the grouting, of which he said he will scrape off a little of the old and just put the new on top...contrary to what you lot have told me. I told him that I had been given advice that the old grout needs to totally come off where he intends to put the new but he said it wasn't necessary for whatever reason I can't remember he said so this is the best I am going to get out of him.

He is truly an annoying thickshit as when I asked him weeks ago if I should buy the Lithofilm cleaner, he told me no and today when his labourer did his best to take off the dirt, the floor still had marks on it and he said that they had done their best to take it off but when everyone is walking on it, black marks will happen. I mean I used to put plastic sheeting all the time on it and when he would come he would ask me why I put it (exactly for the reasons he mentioned) and before he left he would have taken it off...and now he is saying nothing could have been done about the dirt as there is always traffic there..I MEAN WTF KINDA THICKSHIT C**T IS HE?!!

ANYHOW.....NOW he said I should get a cleaner when I asked him again(!) so I am going to and hope it works. I don't know how he could think that a noticeably dirty floor was acceptable and part of the parcel and was going to seal it like that! I really can't wait to get rid of this **** and also can't wait to see the look on his face when he gives me the invoice and I say I can only pay the materials and no more labour LOL It is now the 10th week and today he said I could have a shower after I have not been as I was worried the water/soap would affect the unsealed tiles. He just doesn't f**king tell you anything out of concern and you have to ask these things otherwise I would have still been here until the sealing had been done in a few more weeks to have my 1st shower! If I had any hair I would have pulled it out already!! To think that he turned up out of the blue one Saturday high and paranoid having injected crystal meth and asking me for a needle to draw blood and doing it over the unsealed tiles in the bathroom because he was convinced his vein was going to burst, with my friend in the other room thinking who the f**k is this crazed lunatic person! That's just one of the delights I've had...AARRRGHHHH! What I have had to put up with just to get a few hundred off..