Growing grass where brambles are growing

[lms78]

Hi,

I took on a new garden last summer which had been neglected for many years. It was covered with brambles of approx 8ft in height. I cut them down and then tried to dig out the roots last summer.

This year, more than I had hoped grew back. Based on advice on this forum, I have tried using some weedkiller. Initially to kill all the weeds I put down some glyphosate weedkiller, which did a great job on the weeds but not the brambles. I have also twice sprayed the brambles with SBK. As SBK recommends only applying twice per season (I assume that means year?) I am concerned that putting down any more chemical will have an adverse effect on my land. However, new brambles are still coming through and I had hoped to put in grass as summer turns to autumn (and was thinking about seeding rather than turfing for cost reasons as the garden is quite big). I assume that if I do this, I will end up with a lawn with brambles growing through, which is obviously not what I want.

Does anyone have any advice on what I can do to ensure that this doesn't happen. Am I just going to have to wait another year (at least) for the brambles to stop coming through?

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[endecotp]

It will take a while. Just keep glyphosating every few weeks on the new growth.

Eventually you'll need to dig (rotovate?) before preparing a good surface to turf or seed. But I suggest that you wait for a good long time to be sure that the brambles are dead before digging, as you really don't want brambles coming up through grass and digging will just spread bits of live roots around.

I reckon you should expect to need to keep weddkillering for the rest of this year. Then wait till next year later spring / early summer and only dig if there are no new shoots. If there are new brambles, kill them and wait another year.

 

[lms78]

Thanks for the quick reply.

SBK isn't glyphosate is it? As said, this seems to have had much more effect on the brambles. Is it ok to keep applying that every few weeks despite what it says on the SBK label or should I go back to the original glyphosate I used and hope that doing it regularly eventually has the effect?

If I seed rather than turf, I assume I am best off waiting until September next year rather than spring/early summer? And if I still see brambles next year, hold off until September 2017.

Thanks again.

 

[endecotp]

I don't know much about SBK. It is not the same as glyphosate. Follow the instructions.

You need to apply Glyphosate when the plant is actively growing, and then wait while it works. It does not give an instant result; it is absorbed through the leaves and then moves to the roots, and kills the plant by stopping the roots from working. If you get new growth then I suggest waiting until there is enough of it to be able to absorb another dose, e.g. maybe shoots a foot high with plenty of leaves, and then soak them. Applying it to tiny shoots or to cut old stems is likely to be less effective.

If you seed later in the year there is obviously less time for the grass to get established before it stops growing for the winter.

 

[r896neo]

If you want a really fine lawn then grubbing out the roots with a heavy duty rotovator or tractor mounted rotvator repeatedly and raking out the chunks will be the best method.

If you can live with a rougher paddock style lawn for a year and gradually improve it over another couple then you could save a lot of money and effort by overseeding whats there and keeping it mown. Very few weeds will tolerate regular mowing, especially brmables and this will quite quickly weaken them. SBK and similar woody weed products are nearly all selectives in that they will not kill grass so they can be applied to established lawns/paddocks to treat brambles etc if they do re-appear. Obviously check labels for certain before spraying onto grass you wish to keep.

If its a large area (400m+) i would buy yourself a big bag of seed, a few tons of screened soil for topdressing and a big bag of fertilizer and some selective weedkillers and just spend the next year or two gradually improving it.

If its 300m or less, needs massively re-levelled or you want it ship shape faster then the first option is your best bet.

It is amazing how fast an area of scrub can be turned into a rough lawn just by seeding, top dressing and mowing every 2 weeks.

 

[JohnD]

you can also cut the brambles off leaving a stump, and dab SBK on it with a small paintbrush.

If you leave the stumps at a height where your rotary mower can snip them off later, it will save you going over the same ground again.

IIRC it will take a couple of weeks to travel into the roots. You can do the same with glyphosate gel, but g. will also kill grass, whereas SBK and mowing will let the grass continue to grow. As neo says, frequent mowing will weaken and eventually kill almost every thing except a few low-growing lawn weeds, which you can spray once it is in reasonable shape and you have dealt with the brambles. Probably next year.

 

[lms78]

Thanks to you all for your input, the fact that mowing will eventually kill the brambles is great news.

r896neo the area I am looking to turf is about 200 square metres. I am happy for it to take a couple of years (the whole house is a work in progress, so I'm looking for less effort over quick results to allow me to get on elsewhere). Is there a reason why you suggest going with your first option if its less than 300m or is it simply that you'd consider that a small enough area to dig?

JohnD as mentioned I have sprayed SBK a couple of times already this year. I assume if I use your method of applying to individual brambles, I can do this many times in the year? As I am seeing new brambles come through, I would be "painting" new brambles rather than the stump (cutting them out at their current size won't leave a stump). Would this method still be effective? Do I use neat SBK or water down as if I were spraying it?

Thanks again to all three of you!

 

[JohnD]

I have painted the neat chemical onto stems of ivy, tree suckers and other difficult growth, both SBK and glyphosate, and in my experience it kills the root for that piece. If you have a lot of it you may need several goes to catch them all.

If you look up the full instructions for SBK on the makers website, it tells you how to treat difficult plants, including tree stumps. It talks about mixing it with paraffin as well.

I think if you are dabbing it onto stems and stumps, the multiple spraying rules might not be relevant. I don't know if they are to avoid overloading the soil or the environment with chemicals.

 

[r896neo]

Yes the 300m comment was just because that size or below it would be more manageable a project in saw a couple of weekends where as larger than that it may need more expensive machinery or hired in labour.

The per season guidelines are for blanket spraying of areas. So if you are spraying the whole area you should not do it more than twice in a year. Spot spraying individual plants can be done many times if neccessary

 

[StephenStephen]

Another approach you might consider is to cut the brambles down and then cover the area with old wool carpet or similar light blocking material, for a period of some months - no effort once it is down, and will considerably weaken the brambles.