Grumble grumble part P/plumbers grumble....

[baldersj]

just got a call from a member of my family who has recently moved into a new place. A plumber (who is NIC and Trustmark registered and should know better) has just replaced the JB under the bath (dodgy I know) which feeds the shower pump with a socket outlet!

Her and her other half smelt a rat and called me. I told them "no sockets in bathrooms", as per 7671, and suggested a FCU outside the bathroom, etc. etc.

On phoning the plumber he told her "thats alright, I'm an electrician too" and that "at least its safer now" (!)

She rang the pump manufacturers who also told her this was fine, so now I'm tearing what hair i have left out! Please tell me I'm not missing some rule which allows this as it stinks of COWBOY to me...

Suppose she could wait for the 17th to come along and allow her to plug in her bar fire in the bathroom...

Wasn't PART P supposed to stop this *******s?

 

[Chri5]

Any electrical item approved for use in a zone may be used in another zone with a higher number, but not in a lower number zone.

Zone 0
Requires electrical products to low voltage (max. 12 volts) and be IPX7 (the mechanical protection is unimportant).
Zone 1
Requires electrical products to be IPX4 or better, or SELV with the transformer located in zone 3 or beyond. If the fitting is 240v, a 30mA RCD must be used to protect the circuit.
Zone 2
Requires electrical products to be IPX4 or better, or SELV with the transformer located in zone 3 or beyond.
Zone 3
The regulations do not specify any IP number for zone 3, however reference should be made to the manufacturers data in case it indicates any exclusion. Portable electrical equipment is not permitted other than that using a SELV or shaver unit.
Beyond zone 3
When the size of bathroom extends beyond zone 3, portable equipment is allowed, however they should be positioned such that that their flex length does not enable them to be used in zone 3.

 

[baldersj]

As you can see, none of those apply, so I'll say it again.........















****IN' COWBOY!

 

[securespark]

I can see it's a grey area (or a white one!!).

The area under the bath is outside the zones. So can you or can't you put a socket under there?

 

[baldersj]

It's more of a musty brown area actually...
I can't see anything grey about it, the regs are pretty clear, Accessories alllowed outside Z3 don't include SO's. he's set himself up as being "competent" to carry out electrical work and blatantly isn't.

Anyway, **** it it's friday, gonna pay them a visit soon and put it right

 

[davy_owen_88]

Whether it's outside the zones or not, is it really fit for purpose? Is it an IP rated socket or just standard? Is it mounted on the floor or the wall?

 

[baldersj]

I haven't had a chance to see it, but she reckons its a bog standard plastic faceplate and backbox screwed to the floor, so my guess would be not.

 

[jj4091]

If the bath is boxed in, then it becomes an inaccessible j/b.

 

[joe-90]

What if he'd removed a bit of floorboard and dropped the J/B in it. Would it still be in the bathroom at all?

 

[Chivers7]

Page 139 of regs

Under bath * Space is Zone 1 if accesible with out the use of a tool.

Spaces under the bath accesible ONLY with the use of a tool are outside the zones.

 

[Spark123]

What if he'd removed a bit of floorboard and dropped the J/B in it. Would it still be in the bathroom at all?

Nope, it would be outside the bathroom zones. The zones are aimed at protecting people using the bath/shower from the increased risk of electric shock caused by their reduced body resistance from lack of clothing and wet skin.
Things to remember though, all accessories must be suitable for their environment, if there is a risk of splashing or water ingress they must be chosen with this in mind. Also, all screw connections should be accessable for inspection and testing, under the floor isn't accessable.

 

[ColJack]

so the upshot is...

from a "zones" point of view, it's perfectly acceptaible as it's outside the zones. ( same as a light fitting in the fllor below the bathroom. )

from a connections point of view.. for it to be outside the zones, you need to have to use a tool to get at it.. meaning it's an inaccessible joint..

from a suitability point of view. there is an increased risk of flooding under the bath from bad seals round it or from overflowing baths etc.. so the socket and joint box need to be suitable for use in this environment..

from a strictly sensible point of view.. it's a stupid place to put a socket to have to change a fuse..

personally i would have done it this way....

flex outlet under bath ( raised suitably to avoid any flooding ), with a fused spur outside of the bathroom..

 

[baldersj]

from a strictly sensible point of view.. it's a stupid place to put a socket to have to change a fuse..

personally i would have done it this way....

flex outlet under bath ( raised suitably to avoid any flooding ), with a fused spur outside of the bathroom..

THANK YOU! My point exactly...

 

[Softus]

it stinks of COWBOY to me.

I don't see why. It doesn't seem unsafe to me, nor is it a bodge of any kind.

Suppose she could wait for the 17th to come along and allow her to plug in her bar fire in the bathroom...

Wasn't PART P supposed to stop this ****?

You seem confused about safety in general and the aims of Part P specifically.

The area under the bath is outside the zones. So can you or can't you put a socket under there?

IMHO, yes.

I can't see anything grey about it, the regs are pretty clear

Which regulation?

he's set himself up as being "competent" to carry out electrical work and blatantly isn't.

In that case how did he become registered?

Anyway, **** it it's friday, gonna pay them a visit soon and put it right

There's nothing to put right. "".

Whether it's outside the zones or not, is it really fit for purpose?

What about it makes it unfit?

I haven't had a chance to see it, but she reckons its a bog standard plastic faceplate and backbox screwed to the floor, so my guess would be not.

And....there it is.

If the bath is boxed in, then it becomes an inaccessible j/b.

But it isn't. It's accessible by removing the bath panel.

 

[baldersj]

Where do I start??

OK, the Part P comment was supposed to refer to the Plumber/sparks carrying our uncertified work to a poor standard, not the 17th edition. I'm not confused, more BEMUSED.

Re the regs, OSG pg.59 and reg 601-08-01 should cover it, as its not a SELV socket outlet.

How did he become registered? its my guess his FIRM is registered, not necessarily him (sorry if I didnt make that clear in the post)

I think there is definitely something to put right

And "my guess" was referring to whether or not it was fit for purpose. Its a figure of speech. I definitely 100% think its not.