Has Anyone Installed A Baxi Ecogen?

[Whitespirit66]

Had a customer enquiring about an Ecogen that he had seen in a BG advert.

Has anyone fitted one? Are they worth having re. the govt. money from supplying unused power into the grid? Is the electrical side of the installation specialist, or can most sparks do it?

Any thoughts appreciated?

 

[gti6]

I don't think you'll find many people with one of these installed. You have to be an accredited installer, recognised by the government to install. British Gas are promoting at the moment. As they have all the government backing.

You'll need to get a new electric meter installed, since the boiler produces energy, you can get a special tariff to sell the energy back to your provider.

Hope this helps

 

[Whitespirit66]

Thanks.

Thought as much!

And welcome to the forum.

 

[petit_pablo]

BG currently have an exclusive deal with baxi for the ecogen. Think it ends in the new year. I personally think it's a gimmick.

 

[Biggles..]

Eco gen is now under general release.you don't need any certification to fit them only to get the grants which at present are non existent anyway.
It's as pricey as it is heavy.

 

[nickso]

i would wait a while. ive seen the display model and it looks a pain in the arse.

as said it's a weighty barsteward too.

if the stirling engine fails not even baxi change it. presumably mr stirling does.

 

[mickyg]

you'll need a small crane to fit it because it weighs the same as 3 boilers.
you'll need to alter the electrics with a new meter and possibly other alterations.
The boilers are about twice the price of a normal one.
so what do you get from it? "up to" 1kw of electricity production whilst the boiler is running. So for 6 months of the year when you use just hot water you'll generate maybe a couple of kw a day if your really lucky. The claims on the sales blurb are quite laughable. Not surprising though as BG have invested millions in this already and they need to try and get something back. Personally imo its backwards. We're supposed to be reducing our reliance on fossil fuels, all this is doing is moving part of a electricity power plant into the home. No energy is being saved, just a very small amount of money.

 

[Ihavenojob]

Heard that BG engineers arent allowed to work on them alone,have to have makers with them.Have to be electicaly isolated for 10 mins before working on them as Sterling engine will need to discharge & boiler will still be live.

 

[Biggles..]

Joint visits are common on all new products for numerous reasons, Baxi needs to know what's wrong,boilers still under warrenty,not all bg lads will be trained on the product etc etc.

 

[petit_pablo]

Heard that BG engineers arent allowed to work on them alone,have to have makers with them.Have to be electicaly isolated for 10 mins before working on them as Sterling engine will need to discharge & boiler will still be live.

Aye, we have been told to bounce any ecogens onto baxi.

 

[GaytonTonner]

BG currently have an exclusive deal with baxi for the ecogen. Think it ends in the new year. I personally think it's a gimmick.

The precursor was the Microgen - sponsored by BG. A prototype was made and then dropped. Gledhill made a thermal store specifically for mCHP applications, which went on sale. The freewheel piston (the only moving part with no co-rods or cranks) Stirling engine was developed by a USA company.
The piston and cylinder had coils producing electricity. Simple as it comes.

The Baxi site says 8 years payback. When they are on general sale with a few makers involved the prices will drop and the payback time will drop as well. mCHP maybe become the norm.

The government was keen on mCHP as the peak demand for electricity coincides with peak demand in gas. This meant the electricity infrastructure did not require upgrading.

Only 40% of energy used at the power station is used at the end users. Latent heat losses at the station and line losses are about 60%.

With mCHP the electricity is used at point of making (in the house) or by the adjacent homes, so few line losses. Most latent heat is used by the gas boiler using condensing technology. Then the efficiency of electricity generated is very high - way into the 90 percentage.

Building new housing estates with mCHP units in each home reduces the need to uprate the electricity infrastructure, as each home is a mini-power station, raising the total electricity energy efficiency sharply.

The home generates its own electricity when the boiler is running. This means your meter does not turn unless the demand is above 1.1 kW. If surplus electricity is used this is exported to the grid. So, keeping the DHW and CH fed from the mCHP unit makes sense. No electric showers.

Just a thought. I wondered about using one of these to heat a CH and DHW thermal store. The unit would be on for one long burn to reheat the store. It could then heat a 1.1kW immersion heater in the store as well. Or would a condensing boiler and a GasSaver with a pump, pumping through the GasSaver to the store be more efficient? Probably the boiler and GasSaver, and be cheaper as well.

 

[GaytonTonner]

About 10 years ago the government was very keen to get mCHP implemented. The crisis with natural gas and the Russians may have tainted that view. The official promotion of electrically driven heat pumps and the new nuclear programme may have pushed the gas powered mCHP units well into the background.

 

[Corgigrouch]

In short The Ecogen is a sneaky way of not having to upgrade the National Grid and getting the homeowner to pay for it... I can see the logic and savings to the country and envionment but with my glass back, I really don't want to fit one

 

[1CANHELP]

Building new housing estates with mCHP units in each home reduces the need to uprate the electricity infrastructure, as each home is a mini-power station, raising the total electricity energy efficiency sharply.

These boilers would be of no use in a modern highly insulated house as the bloody thing will hardly ever be on.

These boilers are intended for old poorly insulated houses where there is a constant load requirement and commercial installations. The figure that Baxi say for it to be a worthwhile install is for a constant load demand of around 7Kw.

The electricity meter will need to be replaced and also double pole isolation.

If you want to claim money from putting back into the grid, you need to be a MCS registered installer and fit a MCS accredited appliance.

Fuel cell technology is the way forward, mCHP units are of no use in most domestic applications, however, there will always be gullable individuals who will swallow Baxi's gumf.

These you will find are the green brigade and or short course operatives.

Regards,

An NICEIC, Gas Safe, OFTEC and MCS registered installer/business.

 

[GaytonTonner]

In short The Ecogen is a sneaky way of not having to upgrade the National Grid and getting the homeowner to pay for it... I can see the logic and savings to the country and envionment but with my glass back, I really don't want to fit one

Look after your back first. They are cheaper to run than just say a condensing boiler, that is correct. The new ATAG withe the integral Gassaver may make it not worth it. The ATAG's Gassaver only works on DHW, while a separate GasSaver on a boiler heating a thermal store will work at all times the boiler is running, maximizing the efficiency. It is a matter of doing many sums to to see it these are feasible. GasSavers do not go wrong, which is a great thing.

As the the mCHP, it is always a matter of using the 1.1 kW of electricity it produces when running. I looked at them and thought a thermal store would fit nicely, so do the makers, and Gledhill made one to suit. If your electricity usage rises, say when boiling a 2kW kettle, the boiler could switch in and heat the store and give 1.1 kW towards the kettle. This means maximizing the electricity output of the boiler for home use keeping the electricity bill down, and the heat it produces is stored for later use. Thermal Stores can run up to 95C. Run it normally at 70-80C and allow up to 95C when the mCHP is switched in to maximize electricity usage. A larger store may be needed. It all needs working out and sized up.

HMG was going to give grants for mCHP, I am not sure if they still do.