Have I been ripped off with my powerflush? :-(

[tan8856]

We've recently moved house and our Vaillant boiler kept grinding to a halt because the secondary heat exchanger was getting bunged up with magnetite. The engineers advised we get our system power flushed, and also fit a Magnaclean .


The guy seemed knowledgeable and friendly but seemed to be a bit quick taking only around 4 hours to do our large house with 18 rads. They even said they were in a hurry to get back home as it was friday and they were going out after our job finished!!

They didnt remove the rads or use the vibrating tool that im sure it said they would use on the website. They did turn rads on and off though. However all of the rads in our house are new so he assured me this was ok. We assumed the old pipework was the problem.

2 days after the pf the boiler stopped again. Engineer was called who said perhaps it was residual magnite from the flush. 6 months has passed and boiler has just packed up again. Engineer called who again showed me how sec heat exchanger was blocked.

We opened up the magnaclean (which we were going to clean out anyway as were told to clean it every 6 months) and the magnet was 2cm thick with magnite. Obviously what has happened is that the magnaclean has got so gunked up that its stopped working and magnite is getting into the boiler again.

Now i would have thought that a pf would get 99% rubbish out the system and the magnaclean was just fitted as a backup to catch any extra that gets into the system over the years. I would not expect it to be filled to capacity 6m after the pf. Is that right?

The boiler engineer says we should get onto the pf guy and get him to come and do it again and do it properly this time. The pf allegedly comes with a lifetime warrenty. I just want to make sure i have all the facts straight before i contact him.

Has he done a bodge-job? What if he doesnt want to know. We spent £700 getting the pf done and mc fitted. Should our magnaclean be so full so soon? Id be grateful if someone could explain whats going on.

 

[mickyg]

get them back, no way you can do 18 rads in 4 hours. I charge half that amount and do a proper job everytime. This kind of thing really grinds me.

 

[Kev F]

ill back mickyg up, you've paid double and got half a job.

 

[tan8856]

thanks for your replies.

so how much gunk should i expect to be seeing on the magnaclean magnet?

 

[tan8856]

ps they were actually the cheapest quote by a long way. we asked 4 more companies who all quoted over £1000. we are home county so maybe that makes a difference?

 

[bengasman]

£700 for a proper powerflush on an 18 rad system plus fitting a magnaclean is a bit high but not excessively so. I would quote somewhere between £500 and £700 myself, depending on how bad it seems to be clogged up.
But if it was bad, I would expect to be there for 2 days. No way you could do it in 4 hours.
It is also rather pointless to send 2 engineers to do it. If you have an apprentice, it can save a bit of time, and make the job a bit less hard work, but at the end of the day, it is the machine that does the work and regardless of how many people are running around, the machine won't work harder.
Get them back, they did a botch job.

I don't see how somebody can give a lifelong guarantee as it depends how the system is maintained; I wouldn't dream of giving a lifelong guarantee after a powerflush anymore than I would give a lifelong guarantee on a completely new system. As soon as the inhibitor falls below the minimum level, the corrosion starts to take place.

 

[tan8856]

The guy had his teenage son with him turning the rads on and off.

 

[heatingman]

yes, 18rads in 4 hours is impossible. turning on/off is an essential part of p/f

 

[JohnD]

what size are the pipes to your radiators? It makes a big big difference if they are microbore.

I am a bit obsessive, and like to scrape the black sediment out of the Magnaclean into a jar, and note how much came out on what date.

It's nice to see what a lot comes out, and how the amount trapped goes down over time.

I wouldn't have left it 6 months though, clean it out frequently until it stops collecting much.

Sorry to hear your powerflush doesn't seem to have been much good.

I am an amateur not a pro

 

[Agile]

No one claims that a PF will remove all the dirt. In fact 80-90% of the dirt would be more realistic. Much of the effectiveness depends on the technique. Its important to actually remove the dirt DURING power flushing. A common method is to use a magnetic filter which is regularly cleaned to maximise efficiency.

The Magnaclean ™ should be checked after about two weeks and the decision taken on the frequency of cleaning after than. Perhaps again after 2-3 months and then every 5-6 montha. As soon as little dirt is collected then it can be reduced to every year.

Another aspect is that the Magnaclean only traps magnetic particles. To do the most effective job its necessary to fit a gauze filter in the outlet to trap lime scale and other non mag bits.

Tony

 

[plumbnuts]

I powerflush most systems when installing a new boiler. To give you an example a standard 3 bed semi with 7/8 rads takes about 6 hours to flush properly. I agree with the others, it is not possible to complete that amount of rads in 4 hours. Get them back to do the job again.

 

[DP]

One needs to understand how powerflush works and then use the machine for best results.

The system sediment enters the rads to leave a deposit in a wedge form at the bottom, coating on internal surfaces above the base rib of the radiator as well as layer on the internal surface of the pipes. Boiler and other components that carry this water are also similarly effected. Heavier the sediment, greater the deposit.

Modern boiler has narrow gaps which soon bung up with sediment. Older boilers less effected due to larger water ways.

Powerflush when connected to a system, moves the sediment laced water at a higher pressure than boiler pump can. Machine is also constructed to allow water flow to be reversed. But make of the beast only moves water across the base rib of the radiator as water flows in each direction. Net result is that it will clear a ‘path’ that is as clean as the tap water that the machine uses. No ‘clearing’ takes place beyond this ‘flowstream’. Agitation or wacking the radiator disturbs the sediment at the base which is flushed by the machine. Water above the base rib does not get cleared as it is not in the flowpath.

Machine is best used in conjunction with chemicals. Using the machine to remove the sediment from low areas of the installation, chemicals to dissolve the sediment flowstream cannot reach and finally purging the chemicals from the system leaves behind a system that works efficiently as intended by the makers.

 

[BingoBongo]

£700 for pf and mc on 18 rads if done right is about right

however this has NOT been done right in 4 hours

what kind of boiler/system do you have

did they take water smples?

 

[gas4you]

I always tell my customers that a power flush will remove 80% of crud, 90% if you're lucky on a good day.

Generally though, I think powerflushing is over rated and with a combi or system boiler, just as good a job can be done without a machine if you know what you're doing.

The plate HE is always going to be a weak spot to collect the crud.

As others have said, price is not too much over the top as long as you get a good job done!

 

[Deleted member 105431]

It would be worth fitting a line strainer on the return after the magnaclean Only costs £10 but well worth it.