Have the rules changed on e-bikes again?

[ericmark]

Years ago you did not need to pedal an e-bike, you could use a thumb control and only pedal when hills too steep for the motor, then the rules changed 250 watt, after 4 MPH need to pedal and motor only assists, and at 16 MPH the motor assistance stops, must be brakes on both wheels, well that includes on e-bikes, so technically many children's scooters are illegal as no brakes on front wheel.

So this scooter was not permitted

because you can't peddle it, it has front and back brakes, and only 250 watt motor, but no pedals. However advert says

No road tax, No license required, insurance not legally required and no MOT or DVLA registration.
Fun2ride Bikes will appeal to teenagers wanting to ride them to and from school or for parents who are fed up with driving their kids to school. They are also suitability for drivers who lost their driving License.

If the rules have changed then I can I assume also buy a e-bike where I can use just the motor up to 15 MPH, and like the original only pedal on the hills.

 

[Swwils]

I thought that ebikes needed peddles that can power it + all the other rules like you said.

Someone in London got done because they had a selfmade "ebike" with some stuck on cycle peddles that served no functional purpose on what was otherwise an eletric moped .

The link is obviously a moped and I think the police would pull you over pretty quick. Maybe it's legal on private road and nowhere else like those hoverboards.

 

[ericmark]

I see you can hire a scooter but not own it, and use it on public roads, so not sure.

 

[mattylad]

you can own a scooter just not use it lol

 

[ericmark]

It seems there is a pilot scheme being run involving hire companies, so you can hire a scooter to use on public roads but not buy one. However the scooter they are talking about you stand on, you don't sit down, and the stand on scooter as far as I know does not have front brakes, which is why it is not legal.

The one shown can be used on British roads taxed, and insured, with a motor cycle driving licence, but as far as I am aware you can't use it on cycle tracks, and without a driving licence. There are reports of people loosing their licence after being caught over the limit on e-scooters, the picture shows the stand on type,

Magistrates said the e-scooter was classed as a "motor vehicle, the same as a moped, the same as a bus".

which is very different from

No road tax, No license required, insurance not legally required and no MOT or DVLA registration.

but seems we have a range of things called electric scooters.

Mobility scooters can only be used if your disabled, or testing it, I am not permitted to ride one simply as lazy. And they have 3 speeds, 4 MPH can be used on pavement, 8 MPH can be used on road only, and over 8 MPH need licence etc.
The step through frame motorcycle also called a scooter, when electric powered 250 watt or less was allowed on cycle paths, but some years ago this changed, you could still use one if you already had it, but could not buy new, the new law was pedal assist only, although there was also a walk assist mode permitted but that was limited to 4 MPH, where pedal assist was 16 MPH.

Due to pedal assist the range was three times that of the old type. I took my wife's from Shotton to Mold and it would normally take me 90 minutes on a normal bike, but 45 minutes on the ebike, however I continued to Chester then back to Shotton and there was no change in the time taken, the gearing resulted in lower top speed, and on the flat I can do around 8 to 16 MPH on standard bike depending on the wind. This was also reflected in battery level, it dropped a lot going up-hill but hardly used any on the flat.

I had every intention of getting an e-bike, however not sure if folding which means motor in wheel, or non folding so can have mid motor driving through the gears so better hill climbing. There is also the weight, with normal bike I put it on the train, when it runs, classed as a dog so £3.50 but not allowed on a bus, folding bikes are allowed on a bus if put in a bag, and if I over do it, good idea to be able to return on bus, as the steam trains don't run that often.

Being able if I miss the train or bus to use it total electric to get home would be good, so if the law has reverted back to how it was then I want one I don't have to pedal.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I understand that some (maybe all) e-bikes can be modified fairly easily to remove their UK restrictons.

 

[ericmark]

Since I use tow paths and old railway lines the e-bike needs to comply, I have a motorcycle licence so on the road all it means is insurance and registering, so could legally use any e-bike on the road, but not on cycle tracks.

 

[foxhole]

People selling are often morons who have zero knowledge of law or sell regardless .
The one in the photo does have pedals but have not been fitted for the photo .
Many e- bikes on the road ( courier type) are illegal due to their power output but police cannot tell by the appearance so go unpoliced.
I road a derestricted moped every day to work for over 30years, never got stopped or checked by plod.

 

[ericmark]

In my teens I rode a Honda P50, it had pedals, but you could walk beside it faster than you could pedal it, the pedals were only used to start it, at that time there was no power restriction just had to be under 50 cc and be capable of being propelled by pedals.

The motorway rules however was simply not under 50 cc, and my mate had a street legal ex-manse 50 cc racier and got done for under 50 cc on motorway and breaking the speed limit, he had it framed on the wall.

But mopeds have never been allowed on cycle tracks, the Raleigh Wisp was a push bike with an engine, the Puch moped however had a good turn of speed, so we ended up not needing pedals but on moped licence restricted, but my dad took his test on a 50 cc Honda that could be folded and fit in car boot and that allowed him to ride any size motorcycle.

So with a motorcycle licence I can ride a de-resisted 50 cc, for the Police to know if legal or not they need to stop you and view the licence. But will electric the number plate or lack of it tells them at a glance if e-bike or motorbike. And I know they do stop anyone on cycle tracks with a moped, so would think they would also stop anyone with an electric bike with a number plate.

As to over sized motor or not restricted to 16 MPH, with correct gearing one on the flat may be able to do 30 MPH, but that is about the limit, for me around 18 to 20 MPH is the limit, so it is rather clear if doing 30 plus, it needs a number plate. Unless going down hill.

I have wondered if you can have two motors one in each wheel? But it seems EU law was different to British law, and in France you can have a low powered electric car without a licence, think they do 22 MPH max. And as we left the EU the EU laws were as a group made into British laws as there were so many laws which had been passed while we we members. So it could well be some EU law has resulted in a change in British law which was not intended. Hence the question.

 

[Keithmac]

As far as I was aware the limit is 250w, 15.5mph, NO throttle; has to be pedal assisted only.

I can't see how that scooter can be legal.

 

[Munroast]

As far as I was aware the limit is 250w, 15.5mph, NO throttle; has to be pedal assisted only.

I can't see how that scooter can be legal.

Yes, that is about the sum of it. It can only assist you when you are pedalling, so does not have a throttle, and the assistance must end above 25kph (about 15½mph).

i believe they are easily altered so as you never need pedal, plenty throttle kits and 500w motors available on fleabay. I was talking to some prise one moron last year, he must have been the best part of 20 stone and reckoned he could get 40mph out of it, what an utter liability.

 

[ericmark]

As far as I was aware the limit is 250w, 15.5mph, NO throttle; has to be pedal assisted only.

I can't see how that scooter can be legal.

I think 4 MPH walk assist is allowed without pedalling. But the rest was what I also thought was allowed on a new e-bike, but bikes manufactured before some date were allowed to retain the throttle, so only way would be false VIN plate with manufacturers date being claimed as before cut off point.