Heated/Lighted Bathroom Mirror - Shaver Transformer Buzzing

[kevkdg]

Hi,

I have a heated and LED lighted bathroom mirror with integral shaver point, however the shaver transformer buzzes.

The LED and Heat pad are controlled via an IR sensor switch. On the switch control box inside the mirror it says:

100-240VAC
Max Lighting Load: 250W
Rated Current: 1A

My question is, can I alter the wiring inside the mirror (which I'm fine doing) so that the Shaving Transformer comes on with the LED lights and Heat pad via the IR switch as opposed to it currently being on permanently? I have disconnected the live feed to the Shaver Transformer for the time being as the buzzing noise is annoying given the bathroom is an en-suite.

 

[chivers67]

I'd put a small rocker switch on the side to isolate it.

 

[kevkdg]

Thanks, but my question is whether I can utilise the existing IR switch?

 

[winston1]

The problem will be if you want to charge a shaver you will have to spend 8 hours waving at the IR switch.

 

[ericmark]

I looked for spec on that transformer

Bathstore TDC Power Transformer DC-240-0080T

Input Voltage: 240V
Frequency (Hz): 50
Power Rated (W): 28
Exciting Current With No Load: 80 mA Max
Exciting Current Full Load: 140 mA Ma
Output Voltage: 240 Volts +-10%
Output Voltage Without Load: 250 Volts +-10%
Output Current: 0.08 Amp Max

The maximum to comply with British regulations is 20 VA so this transformer does not comply, and with most shaver transformers putting the plug in the socket actually switches on the transformer, it should comply with BS EN 61558-2-5, there are some older specs BS3052 and BS4533 but I would think that mirror is not suitable for the bathroom.

Having a switch to isolate the shaver transformer does seem good, but getting a switch which is IPX7 or IPX4 depending on zones that will fit in the mirror is not that easy. It has been many years since I have used a mains powered shaver, I have had rechargeable shavers and tooth brushes for years so no need for shaver output in bathroom.

 

[kevkdg]

I looked for spec on that transformer
The maximum to comply with British regulations is 20 VA so this transformer does not comply, and with most shaver transformers putting the plug in the socket actually switches on the transformer, it should comply with BS EN 61558-2-5, there are some older specs BS3052 and BS4533 but I would think that mirror is not suitable for the bathroom.

Having a switch to isolate the shaver transformer does seem good, but getting a switch which is IPX7 or IPX4 depending on zones that will fit in the mirror is not that easy. It has been many years since I have used a mains powered shaver, I have had rechargeable shavers and tooth brushes for years so no need for shaver output in bathroom.

Hi, thanks for the info... this is the mirror:

Wickes Oslo LED Bathroom Mirror - 500mm | Wickes.co.uk

I was assuming that a company like Wickes would only sell one that was up to British Standards?

 

[ericmark]

I am sure the mirror is safe when used in zone 2, but IEE changed to IET during the BS7671:2001 to BS7671:2008 span we are on BS7671:2018 now, so clearly an old design, as it states IEE not IET in the data sheet. But even BS7671:2001 said should be to BS EN 60742 and at that time there was a zone 3, dropped now, 601-08-01 was the old BS7671:2001 number, 701.512.3 was regulation number with BS7671:2008, I don't have a copy of BS7671:2018.

It does surprise me that Wickes would sell some thing not to the required BS number without saying not for use in bathroom, well 701.512.3 states

Except for SELV socket-outlets complying with Section 414 and shaver supply units complying with BS EN 61558-2-5, socket-outlets are prohibited within a distance of 3 m horizontally from the boundary of zone 1.

so that unit without the BS EN 61558-2-5 must be 3 meters from the bath or shower, mine house is rather large but could not fit anything 3 meters from bath or shower within the bath rooms and shower room, I would guess your the same.

As to what Wickes would do if you returned it I don't know? However if it was doing what you wanted I would say safe enough, but if not good excuse to return it.

 

[kevkdg]

Thanks ericmark...

The mirror is fine and I am confident in my abilities to re-wire the isolating shaver transformer to the mirror's infra-red switch (currently used to turn on and off the LED lights and demister heat pad) BUT am not sure on whether this would be OK mainly due to "Back EMF" associated with transformers. Could this damage the IR switch? If Back EMF is a general issue, then how do other types of Shaver Sockets with manual on/off switches or built in switches that are operated by the insertion of the 2 pin plug get around this?

 

[ericmark]

In the main nothing is done, a surge protection device would help, but in the main nothing. In the main a micro switch activated when the shaver plug is inserted is used, it has caused problems as clearly a shaver is only used for a very short time, but this is not the case with rechargeable items, also one tends to hold a shaver in one hand and plug in with the other, so no risk that the shaver will fall in the sink, items being recharged can fall in the sink.

An isolation transformer means the RCD will not work, so tooth brush falling in sink will not trip any RCD. It is also unlikely to cause a problem as no earth path, but most shaver transformers are intermittent rated and not designed for tooth brushes, so in many ways what you have is better than the proper shaver transformer.

So all I was doing was giving you reasons why you could return it. But some times the non compliant items are better, I am using 5 G9 bulbs which are non compliant and far better that compliant bulbs as have a smoothing capacitor built in.

 

[winston1]

but most shaver transformers are intermittent rated and not designed for tooth brushes,

This has been stated many times on these forums but never proven. I have used various makes of shaver socket to charge toothbrushes with no problems.

 

[winston1]

Thanks ericmark...

The mirror is fine and I am confident in my abilities to re-wire the isolating shaver transformer to the mirror's infra-red switch (currently used to turn on and off the LED lights and demister heat pad)

But what about this problem?

The problem will be if you want to charge a shaver you will have to spend 8 hours waving at the IR switch.

 

[ericmark]

If designed for a tooth brush it will have the logo

showing a tooth brush as well as shaver, I have seen so many shaver points yellowed or cracked where they have clearly over heated, some will over heat with just the shaver lead left plugged in, as the plug activates the transformer, many clearly marked

shaver only, the one shown like many is duel voltage and I do question when duel voltage not shown, this

is better. Also the socket has to have micro switches or duel secondary on the transformer as the two sockets must also be isolated from each other.

But what about this problem?

The problem will be if you want to charge a shaver you will have to spend 8 hours waving at the IR switch.

The problem was well documented the transformer buzzes, so only wants it to switch on when in use, I felt best option was to return the item so was giving reasons why it should be returned.

I do question the use of automated switching in general, yet I use it, one does need to do a risk assessment, can the item auto switch on and cause a danger, we have ovens with programmable start, but even with induction hobs, no automated start stop.

When I shaved I used a rechargeable model, and I would unplug lead from shaver not socket, you don't want a lead hanging off the shaver, so if the lead left plugged in can it drop into water and the IR switch turn it on at an inopportune moment? I personally see no point in recharging shaver or tooth brush in the bathroom, only reason to dry shave in the bathroom is so the powered beard will fall into the sink to be flushed away, which means no point unless mirror behind the sink, other wise may as well shave in the bedroom.

I personally find trimming beard over a sink can block the sink with hair, so better doing it away from the bathroom, people do call me father Christmas due to beard, so not used a shaver in years, just a beard trimmer. I do have a shaver, and it goes into a holder and some cleaning fluid is circulated after use to clean it, so the recharging bay is rather large, so would not dream of putting that in the bathroom even if I was shaving every day.

 

[winston1]

If designed for a tooth brush it will have the logo View attachment 240434 showing a tooth brush as well as shaver, I have seen so many shaver points yellowed or cracked where they have clearly over heated, some will over heat with just the shaver lead left plugged in, as the plug activates the transformer,

Maybe, or perhaps it was made before electric toothbrushes were common. Never had one overheat myself with a charger left in it. It would be a very bad design if it overheated with just a lead plugged in.
I wonder if your cracked, yellowed ones are for some other reason. Perhaps sun shining on them all day.

 

[sparkwright]

The problem will be if you want to charge a shaver you will have to spend 8 hours waving at the IR switch.

Wouldn't the light stay on forever until the IR switch is activated again then?

 

[davelx]

My shaver point is marked shavers only and it's been charging my toothbrush 24x7 for 20+years, barely gets warm. So it rather depends on the particular unit.