Heating System Queries

[Paul-man]

Soon to start some extension work to my house. The work will be done in 2 phases, the first to include replacement of the boiler and moving of some rads.

A few questions:

1) Boiler currently located in the downstairs WC. Will the replacement be allowed to be located here, or should I look to relocate it. (Any costs to consider?)

2) Downstairs rads are fed by what I think is 10mm pipe in the walls. (could be 8 and certainly not 15!) The floors are concrete slab.
The upstairs rads have traditional 15mm under the floorboards. The house was built 20 years ago. - is it likely that I have manifolds in the system for the downstairs rads? Would the 15mm fed ones be fed off manifolds too if I have them?

3) UFH - adding this to 2 new areas of the house, one in phase 1, one in phase 2. What do I need to bear in mind regarding space? The HW Cylinder is in the upstairs airing cupboard. Will the pipes for the UFH come from here or from the boiler?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Agile]

All those questions should be answered following an on site inspection by your chosen Gas Registered installer.

Tony

 

[Paul-man]

Thanks- that's really helpful.

The reason I ask, is if the boiler needs moving, I need to plan to accommodate it elsewhere. I was only asking id the prinicple of a boiler being in a downstairs WC was a problem?

If there is going to be other equipment needed near the cylinder, I may choose to put a new airing cupboard in elsewhere. This will then affect bedroom sizes and plans /regs drawing submitted to the council. - Will the RGI really want to come and spec a job this early in the process?
I'm trying to do as much planning as I can before I get any trades in.

 

[bengasman]

There are far too many variables to be able to answer your questions accurately from behind a keyboard.
We get these kind of things on a regular basis, and more often than not it is not possible at all, or very difficult/expensive.
That is why you need to choose a good RGI, and he will design and install something that will cover your needs to the extend that you are willing to spend money.

 

[Paul-man]

There are far too many variables to be able to answer your questions accurately from behind a keyboard.
We get these kind of things on a regular basis, and more often than not it is not possible at all, or very difficult/expensive.
That is why you need to choose a good RGI, and he will design and install something that will cover your needs to the extend that you are willing to spend money.

Fair enough, but I still feel I'm in a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

and how would I go about choosing a "good" RGI? I know how to check on the gas-safe register- that's a basic.
My experiences with RGIs locally so far is not good. One I had on recommendation never got back to me and the other did one maintenance visit, went to source a part for my gas fire and I haven't heard from him in a month- shame as I would have asked him to quote for my installation works.

 

[bengasman]

Asking for recommendations is generally considered to be the best way by far to find good people.

Justified or not, I'd guess you give off bad vibes.

One thing is for sure, very few good RGI's are willing to come around for a quote if they are ( or evens suspect they are ) one of several. We don't like to work for free any more than you do.

Had a typical case yesterday where a householder complained she'd been without heating and hot water for two weeks.
It did not really surprise me as her first question was: “Do you charge for finding out what is wrong with my boiler?”
Her remark of: "they all said that" gave me the impression that she had not been very successful in finding a good engineer willing to waste his time bidding for the cheapest solution.
I declined too.

 

[ajrobb]

“Do you charge for finding out what is wrong with my boiler?”

My Dad used to enjoy telling a story from the '60s: A gas cylinder fell off a lorry and was dented. A specialist firm was brought in to repair it. One man turned up, looked a while then a single blow of a hammer and the dent popped out. He submitted a bill for £25 ('60s £). This was thought excessive for a single hammer blow. He submitted a new bill for £5 for the hammer blow and £20 for knowing where to hit it. It was paid.

 

[Paul-man]

ben- I understand that nobody wants to work for free, I wouldn't expect anyone to do any "work" on my system for free, but surely for installation work, tradespeople realise that people are going to shop around. (My past experiences FWIW have been trying to get someone in to fix my balanced flue gas fire and at no time was I even asking for a price on the phone, or trying to get one in at a time)

I'm not necessarily looking for the cheapest quote either- so I'm sorry if I've given that impression. I'm looking for someone who when I meet them, I know that I can trust that their advice is sound and will be the best solution for my situation.

I understand that recommendation is the best option, but knowing so few people in the area makes it difficult. As previously mentioned- the previous recommendation didn't phone back. Bad vibes? well apart from telling him my neighbour had recommended him and would he be able to come and look at the fire (explaining the symptoms) there was little to the conversation- so not sure how I could have put him off.

 

[bengasman]

“Do you charge for finding out what is wrong with my boiler?”

My Dad used to enjoy telling a story from the '60s: A gas cylinder fell off a lorry and was dented. A specialist firm was brought in to repair it. One man turned up, looked a while then a single blow of a hammer and the dent popped out. He submitted a bill for £25 ('60s £). This was thought excessive for a single hammer blow. He submitted a new bill for £5 for the hammer blow and £20 for knowing where to hit it. It was paid.

That is not a true story, but a modernised version of the original.

There real story is from 1907. It tells about an engineer and ability to repair a 1873 steam engine with a single tap of a hammer.
Others say that is not true either, and real origin of the story involves a Roman chariot with a bent wheel.
Rubbish of course; you can't repair a chariot wheel with one tap of a hammer.

 

[bengasman]

ben- I understand that nobody wants to work for free, I wouldn't expect anyone to do any "work" on my system for free, but surely for installation work, tradespeople realise that people are going to shop around.

We do. Which means you get the guys that are willing to compete on price. Those that compete on quality, know they are wasting their time.

I'm not necessarily looking for the cheapest quote either.

As you have no way of knowing the difference in quality, the main criteria tends to be price. That means that in all likelihood, either the best price or the best salespiel wins.

so I'm sorry if I've given that impression. I'm looking for someone who when I meet them, I know that I can trust that their advice is sound and will be the best solution for my situation.

The problem is: you don't know that their advice is sound, as you have no way of judging that objectively.
I cold spin you a yarn that sounds very impressive and credible, whilst in reality it is total bollocks.

Bad vibes? well apart from telling him my neighbour had recommended him and would he be able to come and look at the fire (explaining the symptoms) there was little to the conversation- so not sure how I could have put him off.

Bad vibes are not always based on what you say, in fact, often it plays on a subconscious level.

I remember seeing my neighbour's new boyfriend for the first time, a few years back. Not a word was said, and he was all smiles. Took me about 3 seconds to realise I did not trust him as far as I could sling a grand piano.
Story ends with drugs, a knife, a corpse and new neighbours.
( Not saying you are a drugs dealer )

 

[moggridgeplumbing]

Quick answer check for heating company on 'checkatrade' if you don't know of anyone or cannot get recommendation. At least you can read their feedback, before you call them.

 

[Paul-man]

Quick answer check for heating company on 'checkatrade' if you don't know of anyone or cannot get recommendation. At least you can read their feedback, before you call them.

Thanks, none local to me on there, but a fair number on trustatrader which appears to be a similar scheme. I never know quite what to make of these schemes- but I suppose they offer a little more assurance than just dialling at random from the yellow pages!

 

[bengasman]

There are a couple of problems with checkatrade.
It is a business working for profit, and as such it is not in their interest to show any bad results.

They get their money from companies that pay for the membership, and as such it is not in their interest to be too rigorous about the checking.

I did not spend a whole lot of time, but I did not find anything that I could actually verify for myself in terms of satisfied customers. Not that hard to create 1007 imaginary customers along the lines of “mrs B. in A. was so happy to find a goodun after having been ripped off.

There are a number of clubs that work on the same principle, and the two that I looked into where/are absolutely useless.

One of them is actually purposely misleading customers, and ( if my information is correct ) currently under investigation on suspicion of violating the Data Protection Act by selling confidential information to third parties for spamming purposes. If the allegations are true, I believe that would constitute a criminal offence.

 

[moggridgeplumbing]

I agree with you Checkatrade is a profit making company and the feedback could be dubious, but by the same token (as a checkatrade member) a lot of people out there trust them, and as I get a lot of work through Checkatrade, I'll support that trust. In addition it's a great way of pointing out your customer feedback for potential new customers. Same goes for Trustertrade I suppose.