Help identifying marks/stains/damage on kitchen ceiling

[Dean_0]

Hi,

I have some marks/stains/damage on my kitchen ceiling which I am trying to identify, I am hopeful that somebody in this forum may be able to give me some pointers.

I have limited experience with DIY and limited knowledge of building construction but will try to answer any questions you have to help clarify the issue.

The marks/stains/damage have been present for a number of years and haven't noticeably changed over time.

I am looking to replace the downlights in the kitchen but would first like to establish what repair work is needed on the ceiling, in case that needs to be prioritised.

I have attached various photos showing the issue.

I have included some additional detail below regarding the kitchen space if that helps to diagnose the problem.

I would gratefully hear any thoughts on what the issue could be caused by and what steps I should take to remedy the problem.

Thanks!


A description of the space:

The property is a victorian mid-terraced house, our kitchen is at the rear of the property.

Half of the kitchen occupies an original ground floor room with our bathroom occupying the room directly above it.

The other half of the kitchen occupies a single story rear extension, which roughly doubles the length of the original space.

The rear extension has a mono pitched roof which adjoins our neighbours property

Separating the original room and extension is a steel beam which indicates the position of the previous rear wall and protrudes roughly 20CM from the ceiling.

Our oven and sink are both located in the original space, not the extension. Mentioned as they would contribute to steam/grease being distributed around the room while in use.

The extension has a large fixed window at the rear which does not open, the original room has a window to the side which does open. This means air circulation in the extension is likely to be limited.

It is in that single story extension area of the kitchen, beyond the protruding steel beam, where we have identified marks/stains/damage on the ceiling.

 

[JohnD]

Please include something to show the scale

And a wider pic of the ceiling to show where the marks are

How and when do you ventilate the kitchen?

How do you dry your washing?

Is there a bathroom above the marks?

 

[^woody^]

The dots are mould or fat splashes.

The others are water stains from above

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Do you have access to the loft space above it in the single-storey part of the room?

If not then cut an opening into the ceiling, fit a hatch, check for leaks from the roof then fit lots of insulation. You'll need to assess the strength/span of the joists before deciding whether to climb up.

Recessed lights would be best avoided in this part of the room. They just become a cold spot and let moist air into the loft space. Some LED ones are so slim they're almost redundant now anyway.

 

[Dean_0]

Please include something to show the scale

And a wider pic of the ceiling to show where the marks are

How and when do you ventilate the kitchen?

How do you dry your washing?

Is there a bathroom above the marks?

We are probably guilty of not opening the window enough during cooking and so steam/grease could have been trapped in the affected area and accumulated over time.

Although the cooker and sink are located in the other half of the kitchen, the affected area of the room has no means of air flowing directly through it (the large window at the end of the room within the area is fixed). The airflow in that part of the room is likely to be limited.

Mounted above the cooker is a recirculating cooker hood. The extractor hood filters should be replaced more often than they have been, this could contribute towards any grease stains.

Washing drying indoors is in the adjacent room, using a dehumidifier.

The area showing the marks is in the rear extension, above the extension is a mono pitched roof which adjoins our neighbours property.

The roof is in a good state of repair. However, when we moved into the property it did have a couple of tiles (maybe three) which had either slipped or were damaged.

Those tiles were fixed some time ago.

The mono pitch roof is of low pitch (around 12 degrees) and uses natural slate tiles. On closer inspection it appears to use something similar to the Permavent Easy Slate product under the gap between each tile, I assume to support the low pitch.

My current thinking is that there was potentially some water ingress while those tiles were slipped and/or damaged, but that ingress has since ceased.

The stains do not appear to have changed over time, if they were due to a leak from the roof I would expect them to expand if the problem was current.

The dots are mould or fat splashes.

The others are water stains from above

I think I agree.

Following my response directly above to JohnD, I think I can see how grease could accumulate in that area of the room.

Water from above is also likely, due to the historic slipped/damaged tiles (see above response to JohnD for more detail).

Do you have access to the loft space above it in the single-storey part of the room?

If not then cut an opening into the ceiling, fit a hatch, check for leaks from the roof then fit lots of insulation. You'll need to assess the strength/span of the joists before deciding whether to climb up.

Recessed lights would be best avoided in this part of the room. They just become a cold spot and let moist air into the loft space. Some LED ones are so slim they're almost redundant now anyway.

There is no inspection hatch and so inspecting the area would currently involve lifting slates to view inside the loft space.

It is on my list to investigate fitting an inspection hatch.

It is likely due to the low pitch of the roof that there would be limited room to climb into the space, but a hatch would allow for simpler inspection in future from underneath the roof structure.

Ideally that would be a small hatch which is flush with the ceiling.

Thanks for the advice regarding lights, this is next on my list, I will look into options.

 

[JohnD]

A recirculating hood is almost entirely useless.

How far is it from the nearest external wall?

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Definitely get the hood extracted, it's currently utterly pointless. This recirculating rubbish appears to be a way of kitchen installers avoiding doing their job properly.

You need insulation in the roof/ceiling. If there's none then fit some, otherwise every cup of tea will condense onto the ceiling and keep making stains.

If the headroom is ridiculously low then probably re-roofing would be the only feasible way of accessing it. Or overcladding with insulated plasterboard, if you have the headroom to spare and the joists can take the extra load, which is difficult to assess if you have no access to it.

Alternatively you could pull the whole ceiling down, fit PIR board between the joists with a beading above it to stop it pressing through then re-plasterboard. Which may be a good thing cosmetically anyway judging by your photos.

If you do remove the ceiling then keep it open for a while and have a really good look under the roof with a torch when it next rains heavily.

 

[Dean_0]

A recirculating hood is almost entirely useless.

How far is it from the nearest external wall?

Unfortunately the nearest external wall it is on the opposite side of the room.

I expect that the kitchen would benefit from being redesigned to move the oven and hobs to an alternative location.

Definitely get the hood extracted, it's currently utterly pointless. This recirculating rubbish appears to be a way of kitchen installers avoiding doing their job properly.

You need insulation in the roof/ceiling. If there's none then fit some, otherwise every cup of tea will condense onto the ceiling and keep making stains.

If the headroom is ridiculously low then probably re-roofing would be the only feasible way of accessing it. Or overcladding with insulated plasterboard, if you have the headroom to spare and the joists can take the extra load, which is difficult to assess if you have no access to it.

Alternatively you could pull the whole ceiling down, fit PIR board between the joists with a beading above it to stop it pressing through then re-plasterboard. Which may be a good thing cosmetically anyway judging by your photos.

If you do remove the ceiling then keep it open for a while and have a really good look under the roof with a torch when it next rains heavily.

On further inspection this morning I noticed that the ceiling has various patches which are noticeably colder than the surrounding area.

Some of those cold patches are located where staining has occurred.

I researched online and found that cold patches can be due to insulation being missing or incorectly fitted over those areas.

I also read that an unfortunate effect of that issue is that condensation can occur on those cold patches.

I came back online to post an update along those lines, then read your reply part of which seems closely related to that discovery.

The majority of the ceiling feels warm, it is only isolated areas which feel cold.

Thanks for the suggestions for longer term fixes. Right now I am looking for a short term fix as we do not currently have plans to invest significant money into the property (at least not in this area).

My main concern is whether the marks/stains/damage were indications of more fundamental structural or integrity issues which would need to be prioritised.

 

[JohnD]

I suppose you could put an extractor fan in the external wall, high up near the ceiling. If will not be as efficient as an extractor over the hob.

If you can access the roof space you could put a duct up there.