Help please! Soil stack issues!

[Riverhax]

Internal soil stack of 1950’s built house. Comes up through a collar on kitchen floor and is boxed in to ceiling. There is an elbow coming off the soil stack that sweeps up into a collar in the first floor toilet. A flexible toilet pipe then joins this to the toilet. The soil stack itself continues up towards the attic. Parts of the stack seem to be cast iron, other parts are something else.

Water marks on the kitchen ceiling led me to investigate. There is weeping around the joint of the elbow from the stack to the toilet, it can be seen that this has had an attempted ‘fix’ previously.

Is it possible to remove this elbow and replace with a shiny new plastic one? If so, what would be the best way to go about this, as in how much of the elbow would need to remain in place to connect a plunge fit connector in order to add the new plastic elbow?

The toilet is getting replaced so now would be the time to make the plumbing right.

I’ll add pictures to make clearer what I’m trying to ask advice about.

I very much appreciate any help offered!!

 

[Madrab]

Yep - certainly looks like a cast iron stack - not sure what that gray section is - maybe someone tried to wrap it and then seal it up. Only thing I would be concerned about would be asbestos but never seen anything like that type of repair in that material, maybe a bit of lead?

Only way to check properly though would be to strip it all back to the pipe and see what's what. Are the 1st three pics once the floor's been opened up but it's the same place as the last three with the stack and the pan connector to the right?

 

[Riverhax]

Hi Madrab, the first three pics are ground floor, you can see the main stack and the bottom of the elbow that comes off it that goes up to connect to the collar in the toilet floor. The second three pics are first floor in the room with the toilet.
If I tap the pipes or use a magnet, the stack on first floor seems like cast iron but the stack on ground floor does not ring out and does not take a magnet, neither does the elbow. Thanks.

 

[Madrab]

Ah right - the first 3 looking up through the ceiling at the elbow Cast out to the toilet but the lower section of the stack in the wall that may not be cast, the 2nd 3 is the cast heading upwards into the loft.

That lower section in the wall could be asbestos painted black, again though hard to be sure without being on site, is the black section of the elbow beyond that grey bit magnetic?

 

[Riverhax]

No, not on the ground floor. I’ve looked everywhere I can and can’t see anything referring to a soil stack that is asbestos (possibly) on the bottom half and cast iron on the top half. Not something I’ve seen before. Got me stumped. The stack itself seems in reasonably good health, the elbow is a little worse for wear and looks to have had a smear of putty at some point.
I was wondering if anyone had experience/knowledge of whether the elbow could easily be disconnected and replaced? Thanks.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

50's was the era for Asbestos cement products, plenty of properties built using AC soil pipe, rainwater and guttering. Looks very much to me in the picture like at least some of it is AC, the shape of the collars gives it away, and would explain why it's not 'ringing' when tapped and the magnet is not sticking.

Given I strongly suspect it is AC, then unfortunately there isn't much you can do with it, other than replace. I would be very wary of messing about with it, particularly as it's internal.

I'd hazard a guess, it has cracked at some point, and a repair has been attempted with some kind of sealant, although it does look rather like gap filling cement, used for plastic pipework where a solvent welded joint has partially failed.

 

[Riverhax]

I think that may be the case Hugh. Would you know in general how easily the elbow can be disconnected from the main stack? Obviously every asbestos precaution would be taken in such an event. Thanks.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Would you know in general how easily the elbow can be disconnected from the main stack?

Afraid I think 'with great difficulty' would be the answer. Not entirely sure how they made the joints with that stuff, but I'd imagine it would be a similar method to that previously employed with cast iron, i.e. some sort of rope gasket being stuffed into the socket, and the gap filled with mortar, putty or molten lead.

My worry would be, getting the joint apart without breaking the AC, (which is obviously the last thing you want to do.)

 

[Riverhax]

We share the same worry. The elbow and joints are very accessible. I can wet wrap the entire thing before working on it. The piece I’d like to change is only about 2 foot long. I was just hoping there was some sweet words I could whisper to it to make it disconnect. Or a secret wiggle only known to a select number of plumbers that would ease it out in one piece.

 

[Riverhax]

Does this sound like a suitable course of action?

The elbow does not look like it can be removed in one piece so it will need to be cut. I plan to do the following…

• Wear all the required PPE (disposable jump suit, gloves, shoe covers and FFP3 mask).
• Add extra support to soil stack.
• Wet wrap the elbow in 1000g (250 micron) plastic sealed with Gaffer tape.
• Remove toilet and disconnect from Soil pipe. Add support to this end of elbow to stop it dropping when fully disconnected and seal that end of wrapped elbow. Clean work area with wet wipes.
• create an envelope around the joint where it needs cut, using the same thick, clear plastic. Seal edges with gaffer tape. Create a slit in the envelope big enough for a hack saw to enter.
• Cut elbow at the joint using a hacksaw with a 12 inch, bi metal, 32 TPI blade. This will be done slowly and cutting area kept wet.
• Gaffer tape ‘plastic envelope’ to newly cut end of elbow.
• Wipe down with wet wipes the newly cut section of soil stack and surrounding area.
• Take the wrapped elbow, saw and used wet wipes out the back door (a meter away) and wash saw with wet wipes and give it a bath (possibly dispose of blade).
• Double wrap it all, including disposable PPE) in more of the thick plastic sheeting and label as required. Local council tip will take it for free.
• Clean area and myself to standard of current guidelines.

The rest of the process, fitting new plastic pipe and connecting toilet, is within my wheelhouse. So unless I run into anything unexpected that part should be reasonably straight forward.

Does this sound like a safe way to complete the job? Please feel free to point out anything g I may have not considered regarding the removal of the A/S elbow. Thanks as always for your help and advice!!

 

[Riverhax]

A/C not A/S!

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

It is the spores released from Asbestos that are the danger, and it's only really dangerous when disturbed. Bear in mind it is a naturally occurring substance, and is all around us! So, if you can keep it wet, hopefully little to no dust will be released into the air, and you may get away with it. Have seen the stuff smashed to smithereens, and have moved enough of it in the past, wont know until the time if it's done me any harm or not unfortunately.

Sounds to me like you are taking all reasonable precautions, the die hard Elf n Safety brigade may scream in horror, but you clearly appear aware of the risks, and I fail to see a better method, short of sealing the are off and working within a negative pressure environment, and using a Hospital grade filtration vacuum cleaner to remove any debris at the finish.

Probably more danger from coming across a couple of tonnes that's been flytipped in all honesty.

 

[Riverhax]

Thanks Hugh, I get where you are coming from. It is because the work is being done internally in the kitchen. I didn’t fancy stirring it into my cuppa or buttering it onto my sarnies for the next few days. I appreciate you taking the time to offer your opinion, it was very helpful. Thanks.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Ironically, eating asbestos may not do you so much harm, (although I wouldn't want to try it), my understanding has always been, the spores are breathed in, lodge in the lungs, of which the Person is unaware, until Asbestosis is diagnosed, often many years afterwards.

Hence why it was hailed as a wonder product, with so many properties and uses, it took years before People became ill and the cause was traced back to working with or around asbestos. Believe it or not, the Russians (and others), are still mining it!