help! serious concerns of a project

[ohsaywhat]

Agreement: 9 day job, ready by Sat 29th Sept…it's a 3bed flat. Labour quote £5.5k.

(i) tidy up as discussed per room (bedroom flooring, walls, skirting tidy up, locks, fire alarms, tv outlet points etc). (ii) 2 separate WCs with sinks (refurbing one and the other is a cupboard being converted into a toilet) (iii) fix up bathroom. New suite, decent extraction etc. (iv) keep kitchen units, replace worktops. Cover boiler. New dual fuel cooker not far off what is there already but with decent extraction...

16th Sept I sent a £2.5 deposit. was meant to start 20th Sept:

1. started job 1week later than agreed
2. prep could have started as soon as he received £ – I know for a fact everyone was available to do work as they have told me
3. underestimated materials costs – advised roughly £2k, infact it’s over double that now
4. measurements incorrect – too few tiles, wrong toilet which I consulted him/his team about before buying. Some of the tiling is no good, sitting in the "cowboy" category. eg tiling in the wc where there has been no space left for beading and so the standard looks low.
5. not giving due attention when inspecting/offering quote, nor before jobs are started = more delays as requirements not identified, project manager arrives mid-late afternoon finding we don’t have appropriate materials to complete a job + too late in the day to source them, his men have been doing jobs unsupervised+plenty of mistakes have been made as a result
6. once original deadline not reached, advised bathroom, kitchen and wc by Thursday 4th October. Now saying he will complete this by Mon 8th Oct.
7. Not fulfilled a single agreement or schedule. Every room is only part done.
8. They've been working 1/2 days for the most part. Only 3 days were there have been full days’ worth of work carried out. My job does not seem to have any priority. Jobs that can be completed in 1 day have taken 3 or more days.
9. no project management: client living in the site, should have prepared the workmen + the job in such a way that I could still live comfortably. Promised me working bath but in fact has only carried out quick fix measures leaving me with a leaking bath.
10. I coughed up all sorts of crap from living in the site for longer than advised I would be
11. wants to agree extra payment for jobs not in the original quote, but he hasn't even honoured the original schedule + any "add ons" are because he didn't inspect the property thoroughly at any point whatsoever.

Cannot say he has even earnt the deposit I have paid him. I want the job to end and I want £1000 back, or I am willing to take this to court.

was referred to me by a Landlord, so I had good faith that he was capable of doing a good job to a high standard.

.....right now I'm thinking put all his tools outside tomorrow AM, not let him back in + demand £1000 back from my deposit, give the job to someone else. it's affecting my business and my health. advice please?

 

[Harbourwoodwork]

did you get an other prices for the work

 

[ohsaywhat]

Thanks for quick reply

Yes I did but it was for more work than I've detailed here, as I scaled down my plans. Was originally quoted 12-15k for same work you see but with non-load bearing wall being taken down and rebuilt and installation of a wet room. I was happy with the 5.5 quote for the new plans but execution is not professional or honourable he simply doesn't have the manpower to complete the job as agreed...

I am risking more problems keeping them on I feel, and also feel I will be owed some of my deposit back if the agreement ceases

What does everyone think?

 

[ohsaywhat]

I have created a new agreement (after typing up and copying in original communications and agreements, along with the problems i listed above, to form one complete document) with the following information. if he doesn't sign it tomorrow, I will let him do as much work as he can for the day, ensure he is not allowed back to the site the following day and that he receives no further payment. I will then get quotes from people on what has been done and what is left and on that basis take him to court if necessary:



All work is to be completed by Thursday 11th October. Refer to original agreement at the beginning of this document.
Full attention is to be given to this job’s completion. No half days from you or anyone.
You are to supervise your workmen to ensure a high standard is achieved on their tasks at hand.
Only on completion is the remainder of the £5.5k to be paid.
The only acceptable add-ons are for the installation of the new worktops, kitchen tiling, and the making of a storage area where the sani-flo will sit. This is £_________, £___________ and £________ , respectively, which will also be paid on completion.
Deductions will be made in relation to any poor quality workmanship.
If all work is not completed by Thursday 11th October to a high standard including the place totally clean, any payment will be a matter for the courts. In any case, any costs of court proceedings that I incur will be your responsibility, not to mention I will charge you for any remedial work I have to seek should you not fulfil any of your side of the agreement or should any faults and consequential damages be evident.

your thoughts?

 

[cajar]

Does your original contract specify the completion date? If so, why type another one with a later date? That's an ace up your sleeve you're throwing away.

You can't tell him how long to work each day, all you can do is hold him to what he agreed to provide. And your contract has to make is explicitly clear that 'time is of the essence'. If your original doesn't and you throw him off site for not signing a new one then he can hold you to the original and take you to court if necessary ie claiming the work was simply in progress not unsatisfactory. Be very careful

 

[calorific]

By the time it goes to court, he'll have declared himself bankrupt and you'll get nothing back anyway.

He's obviously got cash flow problems and is using your money for other jobs, and is spreading his labour round thinly. Don't suppose his name is Nick Goodall by any chance, since that was his MO - underestimate, insufficient labour and repetitive bankruptcy

Good luck, but I fear you might just have to write this off as one of those unfortunate incidences that befall too many people. Hope I'm wrong

 

[ohsaywhat]

thank you both for your reply.

I've just had some guy on another forum accusing me of being a customer from hell and that everything i raise is laughable... actually, i have been the most flexible, forgiving and accommodating client he could have asked for. I'm just now at a point where no matter how much i have communicated problems to him, he still doesn't fulfill the promises he makes to sort those problems out.

he had issues with payment from his last client for exactly the same reasons and i've heard from his workmen that he's done this on many occasions and lost himself and his team money. all down to poor time management and being able to pull a strong team together. he's not trying to pull a fast one, it's that he isn't capable of delivering as agreed. I actually feel sorry for the guy in that respect.

this is a buy to let property, so time was of the essence, Cajar, although not stipulated in the contract we just had agreed that the place woulfd be available for tenants to view by 29th September and we agreed that via email

I've actually learnt SO much by living through this, and it's a big shame he hasn't delivered, as I told him there was opportunity for plenty more projects after this. i know exactly how i'm managing the next place. I'm grateful for what i've learnt and there are two outstanding workers that i have become good friends with. I look for the best like that.

so... I've updated my revised contract and added that time is the essence of it and always has been.

if he doesn't like it then the job has failed and all my evidence is strong that he has been neglecting the job and that I have been trying to facilitate everything.

i either get everything written down and signed or I throw him out, because what I am concerned about now is that even more delays are coming and poor quality work at my expense... when i am trying to create a property fit for tenants

it's all pretty common sense as far as execution is concerned, for which reason you are totally right, Calorific! that kind of approach will send a man under.

 

[calorific]

On the subject of those tasks initially outlined - you need to make sure that any electrical or gas work is fully certified by appropriately qualified tradesmen. Also the converted WC should have been approved by building regs, the boiler cover needs to be checked in line with MI's etc. The fire alarm system has to be approved with regular maintenance contract.

I have no doubt that you're aware of this, especially if you are applying for an HMO, but it would be remiss not to mention it in passing.

 

[ohsaywhat]

Love it yes thank you I have applied for buildings notice and paid fee and qualified persons are available to certify. Legal side to tenancies and borough requirements for HMOs sourced.

Not much around to apply to the situation at present except faith !

 

[ohsaywhat]

update:

today i was about to throw him out he had no respect for me as a young female on my own trying to explain to him for the 10th time why i am not happy and where he has not honoured his part of the agreement. just walking off when we were talking, his workmen shamefully shaking their head watching his conduct, he clearly has an inherent tendency to not take people like me seriously. big shame as this is the first buy to let of many. all his workmen have agreed with me and had to intervene and he still didn't have a clear finish time in his head when asked directly by one of them. it is less going for the cheapest quote, more going for someone who was recommended by a fellow Landlord.

the most important thing here is time management in a buy to let setting, and a man taking on more work than he can chew and persistently offering unrealistic timescales. poor business sense.

! i would have happily held his tools and taken him to court. I don't accept poor practice and i will do what i have to. people can't roll over when they're dealing with jokers. be serious. i recorded all conversations and will continue to do so. we have reached a temporary agreement because a workman intervened to resolve it (so he can get paid). £200 docked per day if any more delays. rest is to be paid on completion anyway, and it's only me that organises payment so if i decide to pay less then he will have to face it

meanwhile I am happy to pay for extras, no prob! just frickin come correct to the client about it, and if you don't, don't expect to get correct payment!
we'll see what happens when he finishes.. he sure as hell has lost thousands of pounds in future work from me by not displaying proper conduct.

 

[Nige F]

Ah , the joys of buy to let - maybe he`s just a ragged trousered philanthropist . Good luck building your empire - you`ll need it .

 

[D_Hailsham]

Agreement: 9 day job, ready by Sat 29th Sept…it's a 3bed flat. Labour quote £5.5k.

Was it a written quotation or just an estimate? A quotation is a fixed price, though you can be charged for additional items not included in the quotation.

16th Sept I sent a £2.5 deposit.

I presume you mean £2,500! Why did you pay a deposit? If a tradesman asks for money up-front it's a good sign that he is dodgy and doesn't have a good credit with his suppliers. Labour should always be paid in arrears, in stages if necessary.

meant to start 20th Sept:

Was that in writing?

3. underestimated materials costs – advised roughly £2k, in fact it’s over double that now

Was the £2k materials included in the quotation/estimate? See above re quotations.

You've been stung by a good candidate for Rogue Traders or Cowboy Builders.

Sack him (in writing, giving reasons without getting emotive) and demand some money back - use the Small Claims Court if necessary.

 

[ohsaywhat]

Hi all

this is just an update to say that I gave the guy an opportunity, as per the Supply of Goods and services Act 1982 (look it up to those who are researching how to tackle this kind of situation), to rectify his poor workmanship and complete the job. We agreed a new finish date and that we would dock £200 a day if work continued past that date. 7 days past, and I woke up to find a leak under the bath (still by this point not one of the 6 rooms in this flat had all it's jobs completed)... since then I have discovered there is actually a total of four leaks in the bathroom. he has drilled into the cast iron communal wastepipe and attached plastic piping and the wrong sized fittings, for example. I found the leak, and by 11am the workers had still not turned up (apart from the handyman who was meant to clean and help out here and there, but didn't actually clean).. I threw them all out.

One of them started shouting and screaming that they were gonna get their money, "this isn't happening a second time, you know!"... to which i replied with shouting and screaming, because i flippin can and these people are in my house devaluing my property and costing me my business and my health (came up in shingles). They took their tools (and some of my materials, knowingly or unknowingly) and left me with no water and a good few hazards, too. I said the job is over, yes, but he still had accountability to leave responsibly.

Since then I've had plumbers and all sorts visit to look at the place. every job is poorly done. materials wasted, the lot.

Anyway, as far as legislation goes, I've stayed within it. He has breached it on two accounts. I also recorded conversations we had, so whilst he is texting me clearly attempting some character assassination and stating that this was the reason, I have recordings where I am, clearly, amicable although not a happy client.

At the moment I'm compiling my evidence for court for damages, as well as looking for people to come and finish what's left wit the budget I have left.

Building control are visiting tomorrow, trading standards have been informed, and once I have finished the work and got tenants in, I will calculate what he owes me.

I'm satisfied with what i've learnt from this, mainly because I got shot of him as I should have. I will make sure he doesn't treat anyone like this again.

Thanks to everyone for all your comments and support : )

 

[cajar]

nicely done

 

[calorific]

Many thanks for the update. Hope you remember to keep us up to speed with what ensues. He sounds like a work of art