Help with my attic please? Just a few Q's

[kye90]

So basically ive got a few questions

From what I can see, and what ive read so far today, I seem to have two big chunky purlins (?) supporting my rafters. I also seem to have 2 trusses (?) (one pictured here). So my first question is do I need both...? My aim is to be able to take those trusses out to free up a little living space. My understanding was you either had purlins or trusses, not both.

Second, my plan was to lay timbers down on the ceiling binders (?) 'cos they seem fairly strong, but they have breaks in places to accommodate pipes as you can see. Also, they seem to rest on the actual joists and are toenailed (?) into them. I thought they were meant to support the joists, not rest on top of them......?

Thats all until I get a bit of feedback from ye's. Thanks in advance.

And I live in a Northern Ireland housing executive flat if that makes a difference. Sure as hell explains a lot of the shoddy workmanship.

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• kye90
• 23 May 2008
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• kye90
• 23 May 2008
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• kye90
• 23 May 2008
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• kye90
• 23 May 2008
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• kye90
• 23 May 2008
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[Deluks]

Worrying when you say 'free up a little living space'

The attic cannot be used as living space, storage yes, model trainset you might get away with but living room, bedroom or whatever, then not advisable.

Why you have trusses in there is not clear, maybe the roof was inadequately constructed and the extra members were added for support?

In any case you shouldn't rest anything on the binders. You are correct when you say they should support the joists, they do this from above, holding them up, but they also serve to keep them equidistant and prevent them from twisting. So any weight you apply to the binders will be transferred to the joists and make the ceilings crack and bow.

The binder should not have been cut like that to install the pipe, unless there is a wall beneath. Far too often you see cables and pipes that have been installed by just hacking away any bit of wood that gets in the way. Like you say, shoddy.

You might get away with installing deeper joists alongside and fixed to the existing, this might mean you can lose the binders, as the joists will become supported by the new ones, which must be sitting on loadbearing walls. Noggins or struts will also be needed.

*edit* looking again, it could be the case that the 'trusses' have been installed to compensate for the binder being cut through.

 

[kye90]

this is what i plan to do, to support things in order to allow me to take out those trusses:

what u think?

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• kye90
• 24 May 2008
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• kye90
• 24 May 2008
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[Deluks]

That vertical hanger makes me think even more that it's holding up the cut section of binder.

Ading all those vertical studs won't do a lot, unless you plan to remove the chunky purlins (which I do NOT advise!)

The horizontal spars at the top may not help much but certainly won't do any harm.


What you need to do is figure out what's going to happen to the binder once you remove the 'truss' I suspect bad things.


You might be able to supplement the binder with a much deeper section of 8x2 or 9x2, fix this alongside the binder along it's full length, and cut over the pipework. This will mean that the binders original function is reinstated.

These are just suppositions though, and I recommend getting expert advice before taking out anything from your roof structure.


ps. A builder is not classed as an expert.

 

[kye90]

I don't really get the use of the binders up there, I thought they were meant to be embedded in the walls somehow, but I just checked and they aren't secured to anything other than being toenailed into the joists. How this is meant to provide any extra support I don't know, surely its just extra weight on the joists for no good purpose.

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• kye90
• 25 May 2008
• 1

See pic for the wee scrap of wood propping up the binder near that cut for the pipes. Its laughable isn't it?

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• kye90
• 25 May 2008
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Don't worry, the chunky purlins are staying and will be hidden by some plasterboard or something, I realise how vital they are.

 

[joe-90]

That binder is only an ornament. It needs to go into the wall so that it supports the ceiling joists. That's its only job. Nothing to do with the roof.
The rafters are supported by the substantial purlin and looks pretty good to me. Can't see what the truss is all about.

 

[kye90]

Thanks, its good to have your suspicions confirmed about something. In which case, all the 3 binders are ornaments, 'cos none of them are attached to the brick-work in any way.....................................its a joke.

Ive got pretty straight in my head now what I need to do, but just one more thing.... whats the rules regarding nailing a vertical support into your rafters, and nailing the bottom of said support into a joist below...? Just to support it from above slightly..?

Like in this pic, where the plan was to toenail the supports into the binder, or possibly having them resting on new timber 'floorboards'; but instead nailing them on the sides of the joists to 'hold them up', for want of a better expression.

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• kye90
• 24 May 2008
• 2