Help with new house system

[Rom]

Hi

I'm hoping someone can identify from some pictures What's what for me, and what I need to do to fix my problems.

We just moved into a rented house, and can't quite figure out how everything works.
Hot water pressure is extremely low.

I've always had combi boilers, or years ago night storage with an immersion heater.
Here's what I've got now...

Gas boiler in kitchen, seems to do heating and immersion heater... What's temp dial for? radiator temp?

Upstairs we have immersion heater, a shower pump (black)and 2 others things I'm un sure of. One I think is a pump (blue) not sure what for though. Other is some kind of valve with switch labelled W / M / H

There's also a tank in the loft, which is wrapped in insulation. Would this be cold water for upstairs?
Cold water pressure is very good up and down.

There's a thermostat downstairs, which I'm not sure works. This morning I came down, house was hot, thermostat was set to 20 as it had been cold the previous days. When I turned the dial, it clicked at 22, so that was the current temp it registered? So had gone over it's setting of 20?
Rads were all still hot, so assumed it had not cut system off.

Rads have a mixture of valves, some are just the small white taps with + -, some are the trv kind, with 1-5 etc.
Can the small ones control temp, or only by limiting water flow?
The trv ones, some don't seem to work, like when valve stops, it's on number 2 instead of off position, and rad still seems hot.

I've bled the Rads, got a lot of air from the bathroom towel rail as it's the tall kind.

Is there anything I can do to improve hot pressure? To test thermostat, and trv valves? So I can inform landlord.

I've got electric immersion element off, just using gas. How long should it stay hot / warm? As come mid day, early afternoon, there is no hot water.
It's currently on 2.5hrs morning and evening. Also the taps take ages to run hot when there is hot water. I understand the pipe water is cold, but how many liters can be between tank and kitchen taps? I'm talking 1-2 minutes.
Also, shower has more pressure than taps, but still very low.
Just realised pics dont show well, can get more tonight if needed.


Thanks for reading, and any help you can give.

 

[JohnD]

I can't see any pictures of your hot water cylinder. What colour is it? What size?

There will probably be a cylinder thermostat strapped to the side of it. How near the bottom is it, and what number is it set to?

How many of the pipes are insulated? What with?

You should not need to switch on the immersion heater unless your boiler is out of action.

To tell us the flow, fill a bucket at the hot bath tap, tiome it, and calculate how many litres per minute it delivers.

If you take any more photos, stand well back so we can see the layout of pipes and components.

You will waste gas and money if you don't turn the CH thermostat down before you go to bed. There should be a programmer/timer as well.

 

[Rom]

Thanks for the reply.

I have some more pics to hand, but will get better ones tonight...

I'll fill a bucket tonight and time it.

I don't think any pipes around the immersion tank are insulated. just the tank itself. And the tank in the loft.

Here's the timer, it's pretty basic.

Thermostat is maybe a third or so from the bottom., again I'll check tonight

Am I using the wrong term, is the immersion heater just the actual electric element. Not the name of the complete system, with tank and using gas boiler etc.

 

[JohnD]

the immersion heater is the device with an electric element that heats the water, and a round plastic or metal cap that is visible on the top (sometimes the side) of the cylinder.

http://www.screwfix.com/c/heating-plumbing/copper/cat2340008

http://www.screwfix.com/c/heating-plumbing/immersion-heaters/cat830986

If yours looks like this
http://www.screwfix.com/p/rm-1075-x-450-indirect-combination-cylinder/82276
then it will always have low water pressure, especially upstairs.

Nothing basic about that timer. It's an ACL Drayton Lifestyle enabling you to set multiple timings for your HW and CH. It will have a number on it, possibly ending with a 7, and you can download the instructions from the makers website.

 

[D_Hailsham]

You have a 'Y Plan system'. Here's a diagram showing how the components fit together.

View media item 69
The blue pump circulates the hot water through the radiators and/or the coil in the Gedhill hot water cylinder. The mid-position valve will divert the boiler's hot water to the appropriate place, depending on the setting of the time clock and the room and cylinder thermostats.

You say you have a tank in the loft. Is there just the one large tank, or is there a second small tank? If just one tank, this is the cold water supply to the hot water cylinder. The second, smaller tank, if you have one, is the feed tank for the boiler. You may not have this tank as some boilers don't need it. (I can't read which boiler you have.)

The reason for the low hot water pressure is that hot water relies on the cold water in the loft to deliver hot water to the taps and the pressure is directly related to the height of the tank above the tap.

The temperature control on the boiler is used to set the temperature of the water circulating though the radiators and the cylinder coil. Normally this should be set to about 75C.

The thermostat on the side of the HW cylinder should be set to 60C.

 

[Onetap]

You say you have a tank in the loft. Is there just the one large tank, or is there a second small tank? If just one tank, this is the cold water supply to the hot water cylinder.

The black marks on the hot water cylinder label (3rd post, 1st picture) suggest (if I've understood it correctly) that it's a combination cylinder. If so, the cold water supply to the cylinder is on top of the cylinder, with a mains water supply to a float valve. That would be why his hot water pressure is low.

PS One of these;
http://www.gledhill.net/page/123/Seagull.htm

 

[JohnD]

I think so too.

If yours looks like this
http://www.screwfix.com/p/rm-1075-x-450-indirect-combination-cylinder/82276
then it will always have low water pressure, especially upstairs.

 

[Rom]

pretty sure it's 1 tank in loft, and not as big as I have seen.

I'll check tonight and try and get makes and models.

So if it is this Gledhill combi type, it's just how it is? Nothing to fix it, a pump etc?

Girlfriend is on my case!

Thanks again

 

[JohnD]

you said you have a shower pump.

If you wanted to, and your and your neighbours can put up with the noise, you could pump the bathwater. Or you could have a cold water tank installed in the loft.

As it is a rented house I doubt you or the owner will want to.

 

[D_Hailsham]

The black marks on the hot water cylinder label (3rd post, 1st picture) suggest (if I've understood it correctly) that it's a combination cylinder.

I should have read the label!

 

[Onetap]

I should have read the label!

I should have read JD's post.

And it's well below the capacity recommended for most shower pumps.

 

[Rom]

OK

As requested. To run 5 ltrs from hot tap downstairs, took 2:55. It was 1:30 before it got hot.

What does this tell us ? How slow / bad is that.

The shower pump is under rated ? To be honest, the shower is no more powerful than ones just running a mixer pipe off the taps! So doesnt surprise me.
Though it says Salamander RSP50 Twin, 10 lpm @ 1.3 bar, max 1.5 bar. Next one up is 2 bar, and £260 ish.

Heres a pic of the airing cupboard from a distance

We dont bath, only shower, though we run a shallow bath for the toddler.
Its just painfully slow to wash up etc, and washing your hands in hot water takes 2 minutes, and you waste 2.5 ltrs before its even warm!
So there is nothing to be done then, this is just how it is ?

This is the boiler we have

Any idea roughly how far the dial should be for 75 then ? As it has only a max marking.

 

[JohnD]

follow the hot water pipe that comes out of the top of the hw cylinder, look for any valves on it that might be partly shut and obstructing the flow. They might be ball-o-fix type which are (usualy) chrome and operated with a screwdriver.

climb up and look into the cold tank on top of the cylinder. How deep is the water? Is there anything obstructing the exit hole near the bottom, such as a drowned mouse, limescale, or a sock?

 

[Rom]

Ive followed all pipes in that cupboard as far as i can, only valve is that red tap.

Shower pipes have some kind of plastic coupler which is black, and has a screw type valve, these are straight as in open.

Ive found on the blue pump, there is a setting dial 1,2,3 Its on 2, but that would only affect the heating supply of water, and water to the tank ? Nothing related to tap.

Ill have a look in the loft when im back from work.

Thanks again

 

[D_Hailsham]

Any idea roughly how far the dial should be for 75 then ? As it has only a max marking.

Min is 55C and Max is 82C. So you won't be far out if you set it so the arrow is pointing down, ie. 6 o'clock. At the moment it seems to be pointing to about 4 o'clock; or is actually off in your pic? The boiler temperature must be higher than the required hot water temperature.