High pressure fuel pump replacement

[stevethejoiner]

I have an 04 Renault master Van, LM35 DCI 120 LWB only done 60k miles, the other day just cut out, instantly. been running beautifully still with half a fuel tank, plenty of battery to turn over but would not fire up.

Got towed to local garage and plugged it in and diagnostics fault code points to no fuel pressure. They say, high pressure pump needs replacing, but they will have to remove fuel tank, flush common rail, injectors, all fuel lines, mega job. Estimate £1500
I called Renault dealer for quote, £400 labour £475 for recon pump. Result!!!!
But they did not quote to remove tank and flush etc. Why I asked? They said, unless debris from pump is in confirmed in system there is no need. And asked am I sure fuel system is contaminated, has fuel filter been checked.
Called local garage back and asked did you check fuel filter. Their answer."No point, if the pump has failed the metal fragments will have got into system and the new pump is not guaranteed without a full flush through"

So my questions,

1) If I get van home from garage and check filter, and it's not contaminated, how difficult is it to replace the high pressure pump. Renault book 3.5 hours to do it, thus the £400 labour so i can see its not a tiny job.
2) When a high pressure pump fails does it often deposit metal debris through the system and surely any in line filters (presume it has those) would collect the rubbish. Or are there electrical contacts that could fail or simply the pump stop etc.
3) What are the possibilities of another fault giving the same diagnostic code fault. Could the garage that did the diagnostic check be jumping to the conclusion of the pump when it could be a sensor or fuel line block etc or would they fault code different?

Thanks anyone

 

[Burnerman]

I really can't comment on how easy it is to replace the pump, but in my experience, all of the pump debris gets happily pumped along the fuel lines and into the filter - where it is visible in the filter bowl.
Your Renault may have a sealed filter - which you can't see into - and in which case I would replace the filter immediately the job is done, and after a few thousand miles aftewards.
I'd follow Renaults advice on this one.
John

 

[Peter.N.]

I thought that debris in the fuel system came from a failed low pressure pump in the tank, it wouldn't get from the high pressure pump into the filter - would it?

Peter

 

[stevethejoiner]

Thanks John and Peter.

I will check the filter. It is an enclosed filter type so no glass bowl.

I do not know if this is of any help in identifying the fault or ruling out the pump but, when the mechanic moved the van, he managed to start it by priming the hand priming pump, and as long as one of us walked alongside, arm in engine bay constantly hand pumping it, it would tick over enough to move in 1st gear for loading, but as soon as any throttle was applied it died.

I just wonder, would the engine even start if the high pressure pump had failed?

 

[Burnerman]

I'm a bit confused by this one too, Peter - if its the lift pump in the tank (don't know if its high or low pressure, that one) thats failed, the debris would be pumped into the in line filter.
However, if its the injector pump thats the issue (they do last for ages usually) then maybe debris would be pumped along the fuel return, back to the tank?
If it was this, the tank would need to come out for cleaning.
John

 

[Burnerman]

Thanks John and Peter.

I will check the filter. It is an enclosed filter type so no glass bowl.

I do not know if this is of any help in identifying the fault or ruling out the pump but, when the mechanic moved the van, he managed to start it by priming the hand priming pump, and as long as one of us walked alongside, arm in engine bay constantly hand pumping it, it would tick over enough to move in 1st gear for loading, but as soon as any throttle was applied it died.

I just wonder, would the engine even start if the high pressure pump had failed?

If the engine will continue to run, this would indicate to me that the pump within the tank had failed.
John

 

[Peter.N.]

Bring back the Morris Minor I say

Peter

 

[stevethejoiner]

I'm a bit confused by this one too, Peter - if its the lift pump in the tank (don't know if its high or low pressure, that one) thats failed, the debris would be pumped into the in line filter.
However, if its the injector pump thats the issue (they do last for ages usually) then maybe debris would be pumped along the fuel return, back to the tank?
If it was this, the tank would need to come out for cleaning.
John

Mechanic tells me high pressure pump is in engine bay and fingered along fuel line from filter to somewhere near front of engine near timing belt housing and power steering. And yes that is exactly what he says about the fuel return sending debris back into the fuel tank. So far mechanic has not suggested replacing pump in fuel tank.

 

[stevethejoiner]

Bring back the Morris Minor I say

Peter

I am an Austin A30 man myself

 

[Peter.N.]

Same running gear

 

[Belle427]

id let renault deal with it, at least you may get some kind of guarantee with the work. faults of this nature are best left to someone who knows what they are doing, modern deisels can give you a real headache with fault finding
i sent a vivaro away today with probably the same engine as yours, changed the maf sensor yesterday and it was fine for the rest of the day. thought id cured it but it came back today with the same fault so ive given up on it!

 

[Mursal]

Unfortunately no experience of this van, but I see this low pressure pump listed for the Master DCi 100, so it might be worth checking if the same is fitted to your 120 and check if it pumps with the ignition stitched on? As already said, one like it may be in the tank.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MASTER-DC...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3f027b7293

Hope this helps

 

[Xenon]

If the engine runs through priming, there's nothing wrong with the HPFP. its the lift pump in the tank. I take it fuses/relays have been checked?

Renault/Vauxhall are famous for pumps failing, but once the sediment of filings has settled in the filter, they start and run for a while.

 

[stevethejoiner]

If the engine runs through priming, there's nothing wrong with the HPFP. its the lift pump in the tank. I take it fuses/relays have been checked?

Renault/Vauxhall are famous for pumps failing, but once the sediment of filings has settled in the filter, they start and run for a while.

Thanks Xenon.

Fuse cover board was off when I collected van. As I said, you cannot apply any throttle, just tick over, or it stalls. So can you still confirm the engine wont run if with faulty HPFP?

Thanks Steve.

 

[Xenon]

I'd be looking at the lift pump still.