Hinge drill bits

[opps]

As I hurtle towards my dotage, the other day, I noticed that in poor light, my ability to centre holes in a 76mm Eclipse hinge was less accurate than it would have once been.

I decided that it was time to invest in some hinge drill bits.

I started off looking at the Trend ones. Reviews were pretty mixed. Some people loved them, other cited issues such as misalignment, dodgy springs, bits snapping and the bits clogging after one or two holes.

The Trend set is about £15 (for 3 different bits).

After looking at many different brands, I came across the Axminster ones.

Axminster Workshop Self Centring Hinge Bit Hex Shank

Ever tried drilling a pilot hole for a screw by eye in a hinge countersunk hole? 95% are sure to be off-centre with the screws ending up crooked. For perfectly aligned hinge screw pilot holes the conical nose of the bit sits in the hinges countersunk...

www.axminstertools.com

For the same price, you only end up with one bit. The reviews however are positive and many reviewers mention that they prefer them to their Trend ones.

Unfortunately, I was unable to determine which size, or sizes, would be optimal for a 3" and 4" Eclipse hinge, so I put it on the back burner.

Yesterday I decided that I needed a set ASAP. My local Toolstation didn't have any of the Trend ones in stock, so I purchased the no name ones from Screwfix. The Screwfix ones are only 39p cheaper than the Trend ones, so I hoped that they might be OK.

Hinge Drill Bit Set 3 Pieces

Order online at Screwfix.com. Use hinge as template and drill directly through holes. Spring-loaded and chamfered to match countersunk hole. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 5 minutes.

www.screwfix.com

Big mistake... the largest bit was best suited to the 3" hinge but the drill bit seems to be far too large. I am guessing that the 3" Eclipse hinges use 4-4.2mm screws. I used the screwfix bit to basically centre the beginning of the hole and then used a 3mm bit to drill the rest of the hole.

Later, I noticed that (by hand, for each of them) you can only retract the body enough for about a cm of the drill to poke through. I then noticed that with one of them, the retractable bit is wonkey.

When I get a chance, I will take them back for a refund.

On the balance of probability, I will probably follow the path of least resistance and buy the Trend ones, because of the ease of purchase.

In the meantime, I will wonder if I should have purchased the Axminster ones. Reviews aside, the Axminster ones have the replacement bits at a reasonable price.

I have seen @JobAndKnock mention that he has the Trend ones and I know that he doesn't do tat. Based on many of the reviews of the Trend ones, I do wonder if the quality is very variable.

I guess that part of my problem is that I don't know what size screw is used in a 3" and a 4" hinge. Instinctively, I guess 4mm and 4.5mm respectively but I have no idea if they are still imperial. I was born in the "modern era".

I don't even understand why all of the hinge bits that I have seen thus far are imperial.

 

[ETAF]

just a DIYer, but i was redoing all my doors in the hallway (10) with new hinges black with black screws - I also put up / made a few other doors and hinges - 2 window seats , with piano hinges and a couple of cupboard doors I made, and used some T hinges , - 2m high and small doors.
SO i purchased the toolstation trend set and they have been perfect for that work
But not trade just a DIYer but had a lot of use... i have used for brackets as well - for shelving , etc

 

[opps]

just a DIYer, but i was redoing all my doors in the hallway (10) with new hinges black with black screws - I also put up / made a few other doors and hinges - 2 window seats , with piano hinges and a couple of cupboard doors I made, and used some T hinges , - 2m high and small doors.
SO i purchased the toolstation trend set and they have been perfect for that work
But not trade just a DIYer but had a lot of use... i have used for brackets as well - for shelving , etc

Cheers, I get the impression that the Trend ones are the most widely available, reliable, ones. I don't hang doors day in, day out, so I may may go for those rather than guessing which of the Axminister ones to go for. If I were to buy all of the Axminster ones it would cost me about £60.

 

[ETAF]

it was Peter Millard youtube video, which introduced me to the existence of the bits , but unaailable and so i looked around, only chose trend as i have quite a few bits , router bits and pocket hole from them and never had an issue
I have got a lot of tools based on Peter Millards recommendation and use ........

 

[opps]

it was Peter Millard youtube video, which introduced me to the existence of the bits , but unaailable and so i looked around, only chose trend as i have quite a few bits , router bits and pocket hole from them and never had an issue
I have got a lot of tools based on Peter Millards recommendation and use ........

I have watched some of his videos, normally in the pub with no audio. I completely get why you trust his advice. Top fellow, that said, I watched his "painting" MDF video. As someone that spent many years painting raw MDF, day in day out, I cringed, more than once. The final finish, in my opinion, was chuffing awful. I respect him as a carpenter/cabinet maker, but definitely not as a painter.

 

[opps]

As a follow on, I agree with his choice of acrylic primer. I disagree with the order of painting. On a shaker door, I would paint the insert first, using the same paint (that he recommended). I would never use a roller though.

I would use 170mm Anza paint pads on the insert. Once dried, I would sand most of the paint away to ensure that the MDF is flat. MDF, including moisture resistant MDF is not smooth. It is only when you sand it that you will see the manufacturing lines from the massive drum sanders.

At no point does he flatten the "raised grain" on the MDF. To be fair, he does sand away the saw marks on his MDF overlays.

When I paint MDF, I sand away up to 60-80% of the paint that I have applied. I sand until I can see the machining marks.

I do respect most of his stuff, just not the painting.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I started off looking at the Trend ones. Reviews were pretty mixed. Some people loved them, other cited issues such as misalignment, dodgy springs, bits snapping and the bits clogging after one or two holes.

A lot of small diameter twist drills clog in timber. Sometimes a bit of candle wax or a squirt of PTFE can help, but it isn't guaranteed. BTW, did you know that Trend sell two qualities if Vix bit? (see below)

After looking at many different brands, I came across the Axminster ones.

Yes. Nicely made.

Unfortunately, I was unable to determine which size, or sizes, would be optimal for a 3" and 4" Eclipse hinge, so I put it on the back burner.

Traditional smaller stamped steel, cast iron and brass butt hinges (2-1/2 and 3in) often used #7 screws. Modern stainless steel fire door hinges are generally fixed in place with 4.5 or 5.0mm screws - the sizes used vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. If it helps the standard sizes for Imperial Vix bits are 5/64in (2mm for #6 or 2.5 or 3mm screws), 7/64in (2.75mm for #8 or 3 and 3.5mm screws), 9/64in (3.5mm for #10 or 4mm screws) and 11/64in (4.4mm for #12 in softwod or #10 in hardwood or 6mm in softwood/5mm in hardwood screws). A set of the smaller 3 sizes with a couple of 50mm driver bits will set you back about £25 on eBay

By now you may be thinking, "Hold on a moment...". Yep, those are the Trend Snappy Vix bits, they do cost more and they are better quality (with spare parts availability) - and those ones are made in the USA by a company called Snappy Tools (the lower cost ones are Far Eastern imports and aren't a patch in quality). Don't know about the cheaper Trend Craftsman ones, but the Screwed-Up ones I had a number of years back were 'orrible. Having got hold of an Axminster one last year (for research, you understand) my advice would be to buy either the Trend Snappy ones or the Axminster ones if you are doing serious work

I have seen @JobAndKnock mention that he has the Trend ones and I know that he doesn't do tat. Based on many of the reviews of the Trend ones, I do wonder if the quality is very variable.

I think the issue is that the ones I was referring to were the original Snappy range, which have been around for well over 25 years. The cheaper, Chinese- made Craftsman range are a far more recent addition to their range. So sorry if I inadvertently caused any confusion

I don't even understand why all of the hinge bits that I have seen thus far are imperial.

Probably because Vix bits are fundamentally American (in fact the "Vix" trade name belongs to a specific company, much like "Hoover" does) - most firms selling them call them something else, because the name is or was trade marked - and the best quality ones you could get in the UK for many years were the Trend Snappy ones which also introduced the 1/4in hex drive. BTW I believe the original American ones appeared in the 1970s. Now Axminster may well shake things up a bit, at least in the UK

Above: Left to right - Axminster Trade 4.5mm, Axminster Trade 3.5mm, Trend Snappy 5/64in, 7/64 in and 9/64in bits with UJK square corner chisel below
Below: Axminster Trade 4.5mm (black) and Trend Snappy 9/64in bits stripped down to show components

 

[opps]

A lot of small diameter twist drills clog in timber. Sometimes a bit of candle wax or a squirt of PTFE can help, but it isn't guaranteed. BTW, did you know that Trend sell two qualities if Vix bit? (see below)


Yes. Nicely made.


Traditional smaller stamped steel, cast iron and brass butt hinges (2-1/2 and 3in) often used #7 screws. Modern stainless steel fire door hinges are generally fixed in place with 4.5 or 5.0mm screws - the sizes used vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. If it helps the standard sizes for Imperial Vix bits are 5/64in (2mm for #6 or 2.5 or 3mm screws), 7/64in (2.75mm for #8 or 3 and 3.5mm screws), 9/64in (3.5mm for #10 or 4mm screws) and 11/64in (4.4mm for #12 or 5mm screws). A set of the smaller 3 sizes with a couple of 50mm driver bits will set you back about £25 on eBay

By now you may be thinking, "Hold on a moment...". Yep, those are the Trend Snappy Vix bits, they do cost more and they are better quality (with spare parts availability) - and those ones are made in the USA by a company called Snappy Tools (the lower cost ones are Far Eastern imports and aren't a patch in quality). Don't know about the cheaper Trend Craftsman ones, but the Screwed-Up ones I had a number of years back were 'orrible. Having got hold of an Axminster one last year (for research, you understand) my advice would be to buy either the Trend Snappy ones or the Axminster ones if you are doing serious work


I think the issue is that the ones I was referring to were the original Snappy range, which have been around for well over 25 years. The cheaper, Chinese- made Craftsman range are a far more recent addition to their range. So sorry if I inadvertently caused any confusion


Probably because Vix bits are fundamentally American (in fact the "Vix" trade name belongs to a specific company, much like "Hoover" does) - most firms selling them call them something else, because the name is or was trade marked - and the best quality ones you could get in the UK for many years were the Trend Snappy ones which also introduced the 1/4in hex drive. BTW I believe the original American ones appeared in the 1970s. Now Axminster may well shake things up a bit, at least in the UK

View attachment 291784
Above: Left to right - Axminster Trade 4.5mm, Axminster Trade 3.5mm, Trend Snappy 5/64in, 7/64 in and 9/64in bits with UJK square corner chisel below
Below: Axminster Trade 4.5mm (black) and Trend Snappy 9/64in bits stripped dow n to show components
View attachment 291785

Top man.

I was unaware that Trend do two qualities.

Will follow your advice and either purchase the Axminster ones or the non- Trend ones. I don't hang doors that often but I was taught a long time ago to buy the best tools that you can afford. Neither is particularly expensive, and it had never dawned on me that they would be useful for kitchen cabinet doors until you mentioned it a couple of days ago.

As ever, thank you for sharing your comprehensive knowledge.

If you ever plan to open the Job'n'knock tool museum, please crowd fund. I will be happy to donate.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

If you ever plan to open the Job'n'knock tool museum, please crowd fund. I will be happy to donate.

Don't go there! The missus already thinks she lives in one! She'd probably kill me if I dared broach the subject

 

[ETAF]

and it had never dawned on me that they would be useful for kitchen cabinet doors until you mentioned it a couple of days ago.

I have used on Piano Hinges , Cabinet doors hinges , various Brackets , right angle ones I use the bits a lot now, as its nice and centered , i used to just use an Awl, even more now i'm getting older...... with eyesight etc in dark areas - Infact pretty much any hole to line up centred i use the bits - i'll keep an eye open for the axminster ones coming up on offer

 

[opps]

I have used on Piano Hinges , Cabinet doors hinges , various Brackets , right angle ones I use the bits a lot now, as its nice and centered , i used to just use an Awl, even more now i'm getting older...... with eyesight etc in dark areas - Infact pretty much any hole to line up centred i use the bits - i'll keep an eye open for the axminster ones coming up on offer

I tried to use the screwfix ones to fit a door handle, the drill bit penetrated just enough to leave a slight indentation in the door... later I used the largest one to drill some Eclipse 75mm hinges. The bevel on the largest one isn't quite big enough to centre in the hinge hole, the drilled hole can be out by just over a mm. Once aware of that I decided to set the off centred hole away from the knuckle side of the hinge. Needless to say, the holes created are only about 5mm deep, I had to use a regular drill bit to finish the pilot hole.

Having taken one apart, it seems that the spring has too many windings, by that I mean that once it compresses only a tiny part of the drill bit pokes out. I still plan to take them back for a refund... but I haven't had a chance to pick up better quality ones yet.

I have looked at the Trend Snappy ones, I like the fact their website quotes the external diameter of the bevelled barrel.

SNAP/DBG/9 - Trend Snappy centring guide 9/64" (3.5mm) drill

Trend Snappy centring guide 9/64" (3.5mm) drill

www.trend-uk.com

Before committing, I might ask Axminster to quote theirs.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

A little tip about piano hinges - some trade screw suppliers actually offer special screws to use with them which have a flatter head - Timco call theirs "Classic" hinge screws. I used to use these when I did bench work. They really do sit flatter and make for a more professional looking job.