Historical loft conversion, no idea when/how it was done

[MisterBoy]

I bought a house in 2017 which has what appears to be a full loft conversion - windows, a bathroom, a proper fixed staircase. As I recall the previous owners (who used it as a bedroom) said it was done when they bought it ~30 years previously and there is no documentation as to whether it ever received approval, how it was done, etc.

As I look to sell, I'm sure this will come up and affect whether we list as 4 or 5 bedroom but how does it work? There's no documentation that the original house (1860) is up to spec either, that the first floor was built correctly, and so on. Is there any sort of statute of limitations on stuff like this or would we be advised to somehow get it checked out, if so how? Even if it were done properly by whatever the regs were back then, it probably wouldn't meet today's rules - not that we know when it was done!

Thanks for any advice.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

You list it is as a loft conversion but without regs approval when you are eventually asked.

It's well beyond the time by which any prosecution could be brought by a local authority for lack of regs (unless there was a structural danger to life caused by defective structure in which case there is no time limit on that). The moronic solicitors and/or mortgage lenders will likely insist on a useless indemnity insurance (about £100 or so) to be coughed up by the seller.

Some buyers won't care, some may walk away and everything in between, you'll just have to suck it and see.

Getting retrospective approval is costly and invasive and may mean making major changes to insulation or structure, in any case it would only need to comply with the regs that were applicable at the time of construction, whenever that was and can only be done on work that was carried out after November 1985. But that route is madness!

 

[Mottie]

I bought a house in 2017 which has what appears to be a full loft conversion - windows, a bathroom, a proper fixed staircase. As I recall the previous owners (who used it as a bedroom) said it was done when they bought it ~30 years previously and there is no documentation as to whether it ever received approval, how it was done, etc.

What came up through your/the sellers solicitors when you were buying it? Were any questions asked about planning permission or building regs etc? If not, why?

 

[MisterBoy]

What came up through your/the sellers solicitors when you were buying it? Were any questions asked about planning permission or building regs etc? If not, why?

From memory, I asked these questions directly and was told there weren't any records as it was done ages ago. I do not recall that the survey noted significant concerns - about the only thing it didn't mention!
There's no indication it's not OK, so if a potential buyer asks I will just have to say the same as I was told - basically as @freddiemercurystwin says?

 

[wessex101]

From memory, I asked these questions directly and was told there weren't any records as it was done ages ago. I do not recall that the survey noted significant concerns - about the only thing it didn't mention!
There's no indication it's not OK, so if a potential buyer asks I will just have to say the same as I was told - basically as @freddiemercurystwin says?

Record keeping varies between councils. Some keep archives of the old Building Regulations application register going back to the year dot. Others destroy the old registers after 10 years and do not keep an archive.
I would want to know what "no records " actually means? Is it that the Council do not keep the records that far back or they do keep records and there is no evidence of an application being submitted?
The first is unavoidable, the second suggests that the work was sub-standard.

 

[MisterBoy]

Record keeping varies between councils. Some keep archives of the old Building Regulations application register going back to the year dot. Others destroy the old registers after 10 years and do not keep an archive.
I would want to know what "no records " actually means? Is it that the Council do not keep the records that far back or they do keep records and there is no evidence of an application being submitted?
The first is unavoidable, the second suggests that the work was sub-standard.

So can I simply request my local council provide me with records of any and all applications on my property, is that a standard request if I don't know when it was done? I believe pre-electronic records suffered quite a lot of losses in flooding within the last few decades, from some investigations we previously tried to do into the history of the house.

 

[wessex101]

I would avoid going in to specifics to start with and just ask how far back their building regulations applications records go.

 

[clifford1]

How do you know it's not original? Plenty of houses were built like that.

 

[cdbe]

Regardless of previous approval/certification etc if it has dormers it's almost certainly past it's best - uninsulated cheeks and cold flat roof etc will have been the norm when built. If it's possible to do (probably highly beneficial) works to the thermal elements that are covered by building regs you could obtain a building control certificate with a description along the lines of "upgrade loft conversion to modern standards" which would cover a multitude of sins.

 

[^woody^]

Surely you will have the same issues that existed when you brought the house just 8 years ago.

Were you a concerned buyer? Did your advisors advise not to buy it?

 

[robinbanks]

Strive to repeat the process you followed as a buyer?

 

[clifford1]

How do you know it's not original? Plenty of houses were built like that.

You say the house was built in 1860. Ours was built in about 1875 and the attic floor appears original. There is a full size staircase from the first landing and set of matching banister rails, newel posts and spindles exactly like the first flight. I don't suppose there were any regulations in remote rural areas in 1875.
It's not a "conversion" - it's just how it was built. It's had internal walls moved around over the years, as has the rest of house. The teak attic doors are low and were salvaged from a late 19th century French steamship, to judge by a brass plate that says "Troisieme Mechanicien.

 

[mrrusty]

If it was prior to 1984, as it probably was there wasn't an obligation for a regs application anyway, although there were still standards.

 

[jj4091]

As I look to sell, I'm sure this will come up and affect whether we list as 4 or 5 bedroom.

What did you buy it as being?