Hiya, hoping someone can help. I've recently purchase a Hive for the central heating and hot water (dual system). I currently have the hot water on a timer (Centaurplus) and the heating on a wireless thermostat (Honeywell BDR91). So far we have ask 4 electrians round 2 have said they can't do it 1 said they would try but weren't confident and the other said we would have to change the wiring completely on the boiler??? So I'm hoping someone on here might have some idea. I've uploaded some photos of what we currently have. Ive done a diagram of the main system as well as shown a photo. Hope it makes sense to someone :- )
Hive help
- Thread starter RedQueenie
- Start date
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Your best bet is to find someone and book him for next year.
Page one of the manual does say, in big letters
Important note:
Installation should only
ever be carried out by
a qualified engineer
This is not the time of year to be trying to get any sort of tradesperson to do anything. And if you mess up, its bloomin cold at Christmas without any heat or hot water (just saying)..
But, just as a little help:
The Hive will replace the Centaur programmer, which i guess is a dual channel controlling the DHW and the heating?
The wiring of that would be more help.
Page one of the manual does say, in big letters
Important note:
Installation should only
ever be carried out by
a qualified engineer
This is not the time of year to be trying to get any sort of tradesperson to do anything. And if you mess up, its bloomin cold at Christmas without any heat or hot water (just saying)..
But, just as a little help:
The Hive will replace the Centaur programmer, which i guess is a dual channel controlling the DHW and the heating?
The wiring of that would be more help.
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Hive has two major problems, one with domestic hot water and central heating it does not have volt free contacts, so can't be used with some systems, the second is it does not support modulating the boiler, so even if can be used, it may not work well.
There is a whole list of boilers which will not work with Hive, it is more down to boiler than anything else, and since you don't say which boiler no one can really answer your question.
So to start with boilers can be split into three basic types, 230 volt control, extra low voltage normally 24 volt control, and bus control, hive will only work with 230 volt control.
So to start with let us consider control, there at two main areas, first is the room, and second is the boiler, so in an ideal situation the TRV (Thermostatic radiator valve) head tells the hub often called the thermostat how much hot water it needs, and the hub (thermostat) in turn tells the boiler what output is required, this is likely done with a 0 ~ 12 volt signal using OpenTherm protocol to the boilers bus.
Not all boilers are following the OpenTherm protocol some have their own dedicated system, and some will only modulate the output using the return water temperature, and some are that old they don't modulate. Step one is to find out what the boiler will work with. Then and only then you select the system, with my boiler I have to use Wave, my boiler is not designed to work with OpenTherm.
Some really old systems don't have modulating boilers and have 230 volt control, and often the base used for the programmer is the same as that used for Hive, and with those systems Hive can work well. But for many years we have had modulating boilers, for the condensate boiler to work it has to be modulating, and with the older boilers it will only work with the return water temperature.
So with many systems we have to control with the TRV (Thermostatic radiator valve) the main upgrade is to replace the head with an electronic type, these can be stand alone, or with wifi which may connect to either a simple IFTTT system like with Nest or a complex system like EvoHome. However once you leave the very basic system, hive is useless.
The electronic head fitted to the TRV is often able to be altered with your phone, so no real need in many cases for the main wall thermostat to connect to phone, if this then that (IFTTT) will allow Nest to follow MiHome or MiHome to follow Nest, with EvoHome you can set a different program for every room. And once you look at electronic heads on the TRV one has to question why anyone would want to fit Hive.
There is a whole list of boilers which will not work with Hive, it is more down to boiler than anything else, and since you don't say which boiler no one can really answer your question.
So to start with boilers can be split into three basic types, 230 volt control, extra low voltage normally 24 volt control, and bus control, hive will only work with 230 volt control.
So to start with let us consider control, there at two main areas, first is the room, and second is the boiler, so in an ideal situation the TRV (Thermostatic radiator valve) head tells the hub often called the thermostat how much hot water it needs, and the hub (thermostat) in turn tells the boiler what output is required, this is likely done with a 0 ~ 12 volt signal using OpenTherm protocol to the boilers bus.
Not all boilers are following the OpenTherm protocol some have their own dedicated system, and some will only modulate the output using the return water temperature, and some are that old they don't modulate. Step one is to find out what the boiler will work with. Then and only then you select the system, with my boiler I have to use Wave, my boiler is not designed to work with OpenTherm.
Some really old systems don't have modulating boilers and have 230 volt control, and often the base used for the programmer is the same as that used for Hive, and with those systems Hive can work well. But for many years we have had modulating boilers, for the condensate boiler to work it has to be modulating, and with the older boilers it will only work with the return water temperature.
So with many systems we have to control with the TRV (Thermostatic radiator valve) the main upgrade is to replace the head with an electronic type, these can be stand alone, or with wifi which may connect to either a simple IFTTT system like with Nest or a complex system like EvoHome. However once you leave the very basic system, hive is useless.
The electronic head fitted to the TRV is often able to be altered with your phone, so no real need in many cases for the main wall thermostat to connect to phone, if this then that (IFTTT) will allow Nest to follow MiHome or MiHome to follow Nest, with EvoHome you can set a different program for every room. And once you look at electronic heads on the TRV one has to question why anyone would want to fit Hive.
Hiya, we have a Grant Vortex boiler that was fitted 2 years ago. I call Grant before buying the hive and they said it was compatible. The reason we would like a Hive is so we can have more control over our heating. We don't always get home at set times so it would be nice to be able to turn the heating on just before we got in rather than coming home to a cold house and not have the heating running for hours when no one is home. I'm aware that it should be fitted by an expert that is why I have had 4 electricians so far come round to install but living in a rural area I'm fast running out of electricians to call so my hope was to get some advice to pass on to one of these guys/girls.
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From what you have provided, the Hive is compatible, and as already stated, the Hive replaces the programmer and the existing thermostat is removed.
Finding someone who is useless and then asking random people on a forum how to install is a recipe for disaster.
If you have someone do the work, they should already know how to install it.
Finding someone who is useless and then asking random people on a forum how to install is a recipe for disaster.
Cheers!
I'm not actively seeking out useless electricians. There aren't many in our area and all that have come round are qualified. I thought the point of a forum was to be able to ask for help/advise. Looks like I've got it wrong again
It is. For people who want to do the work themselves.
It is not a place where incompetent blunderers who call themselves 'electricians' can find out how to do things they should already know.
I know I'll move to an area with more qualified electrians. I give up. So much for friendly
Post a photo of the wiring on the programmer back plate.
Then maybe can help more.
That's a bit odd, yours looks to be one of the easiest dual systems to convert, as you will see. Having said that, my only doubt, is that you say that the BDR91 (which is actually a receiver, not a thermostat) is controlled by a 'room thermostat' which is what the information below is based on and may be different if it was a 'programmable room thermostat' (ie with time control built in) so I am assuming that the time control for the heating is still connected to the heating function of the Centaurplus. [If this is wrong, say so]
First identify what each of the existing wires going to the existing programmer is for, by noting what terminal each wire is currently connected to and what it actually does. [You don't say what model of Centaurplus you have. The majority are as below. If yours is different don't proceed and post back what you have.]
If your Centaur plus is as above, the wires are identified from the above diagram as:
N Permanent Neutral
L Permanent Live
1 Hot water off
2 Central heating off
3 Hot water on
4 Central heating on
Which as you can see, correspond exactly with the Hive terminals as per the photo you posted. [See, told you it was one of the easiest]
So, just swap them over like for like. There shouldn't be a wire connected to terminal 2, but there may, or may not be a wire to terminal 1 depending on the type of system you have. The other terminals should all have wires in.
The BDR91 receiver will need to be decommissioned to prevent it will overriding the Hive. It can't just be disconnected, otherwise the heating wiring will be 'open circuit' and not operate. This can be done by tracing the wires back from the thermostat and noting where they originate from. Then disconnect the cable at its origin, and the two terminals where the black and brown wires were connected should be joined together. [Alternatively, if you are happy to leave the BDR91 in place, remove the grey link between L and A, and put the brown wire in B with the black one.]
Ah OK, so when you said "heating on a wireless thermostat (Honeywell BDR91)" What you really meant was heating on a programmable wireless thermostat (Honeywell CM900). And you have a dual channel programmer that has hot water and heating control but is only wired up for hot water control.
So in that case, ignore completely my original post and instead:
The Black wire in the Centurplus C27 is the 'hot water on' wire and should go to the Hive terminal (3) hot water on
The Black wire in the BDR91 is the 'heating on' wire and should go to the Hive terminal (4) heating on
The Hive also needs a permanent Neutral and Live supply, to N and L respectively. This can be from either the BDR91 or the Centurplus, or assuming that they are both supplied via the same fused supply (usually the same one supplying the boiler) then you could connect them both to the N and L as shown below, that way you won't have to disconnect the N & L from one of them at both ends / and isolate them to make them safe.
So in that case, ignore completely my original post and instead:
The Black wire in the Centurplus C27 is the 'hot water on' wire and should go to the Hive terminal (3) hot water on
The Black wire in the BDR91 is the 'heating on' wire and should go to the Hive terminal (4) heating on
The Hive also needs a permanent Neutral and Live supply, to N and L respectively. This can be from either the BDR91 or the Centurplus, or assuming that they are both supplied via the same fused supply (usually the same one supplying the boiler) then you could connect them both to the N and L as shown below, that way you won't have to disconnect the N & L from one of them at both ends / and isolate them to make them safe.
The Hive will therefore connect to the wiring centre (your first photo).
All you need to do is identify which of the cables go to the Centurplus and which goes to the BDR91 and you are half way home. but please see my earlier post #2
All you need to do is identify which of the cables go to the Centurplus and which goes to the BDR91 and you are half way home. but please see my earlier post #2
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