Honeywell 2 port valve replacement problem

[Nemo1966]

Hi,

my fathers honeywell 2 port valve recently croaked and so I got a replacement, apparently a direct replacement. However once fitted I realised that the action of the valve was completely different. e.g The old valve was closed by default and opened (allowing flow to rads) when live was applied to it, but now the new valve is open by default and closes when power is applied to it.

The system is governed by a randall 102 programmer which is basic in the design e.g On hot water setting the programmer sets the HW pin live (to boiler and pump) . On HW and heating setting the HW and the Heating pin are set live... boiler and pump live and then heating->2 port valve live, causing the port to open and then flow to rads is assured.


Now that the action of the valve has changed then the system does not work as intended e.g the port closes when power is applied rather than opens. Added to this is the room stat that acts as a breaker for the live circuit to the 2 port valve, when calling for heat the thermostat makes the live connection and the 2 port was then opened.

How can I fix this behavior? do i need a different programmer?

thanks
Nemo

 

[wilhelm]

download the.pdf file from honeywell

here


sounds like you chose the wrong v4043 valve

 

[bster]

maybe wrong valve.

a Honeywell V4043 'B' will be closed on receiving live.
and the V4043 'H' model numbers will be open when live.

check exact model number and check!

 

[croydoncorgi]

If you HAVE wrongly installed the normally-open (B) model and need the normally-closed (H) type, you MIGHT be able to change just the actuator head, without the hassle of draining down the system. The NC version of this valve is by far the commonest type and replacement heads are available 'everywhere'.

Looking at the Honeywell reference given above, I spotted the following:

NOTE: Continuous operation of the valve motor at the fully open position is not recommended

Well - that's 'interesting'. I reckon 99% of all installations of this valve work EXACTLY in this way!!!! (And since it closes automatically as soon as power is removed, it CAN'T work any other way! The 1% is the ones that don't work at all!)

 

[croydoncorgi]

After further thinking about this.....
The key issue is whether the valve body is EXACTLY the same for Normally Closed AND Normally Open versions of the valve. It certainly looks the same. The vital thing to check is the direction of rotation of the spindle: if it's different for the different types of valve, you'll need to change the whole thing.

 

[Softus]

Looking at the Honeywell reference given above, I spotted the following:

NOTE: Continuous operation of the valve motor at the fully open position is not recommended

Well - that's 'interesting'. I reckon 99% of all installations of this valve work EXACTLY in this way!!!! (And since it closes automatically as soon as power is removed, it CAN'T work any other way! The 1% is the ones that don't work at all!)

I think the Honeywell "NOTE" is misleading, and that you've misinterpreted it.

The way that the motor is designed to work (and this design aim is upheld by the way that the valve operates) results in an electrical "stall" when the microswitch is closed. I expect that the words "continuous operation of the motor" are intended to discourage the deployment of any strange system wiring or any modification that would circumvent this design aim.

To this end, Honeywell publish system wiring diagrams, and present courses, illustrating how to wire in the valves, and, as you observed, this is how the overwhelming proportion of installations are.

 

[Nemo1966]

Thanks for the help.

Im going to order the normally closed version and hope the body is the same

Then Im going to go back to the place I got it from and shove it up the assistants .......

Thanks again

 

[Softus]

Im going to order the normally closed version and hope the body is the same

Why rely on hope? Why not ask the supplier to confirm? And if they can't, then phone Honeywell and ask them?

Then Im going to go back to the place I got it from and shove it up the assistants .......

It's not all clear from your postings that any mistake was made by the assistant. Did you give them the correct part number, for example?

Even if you did, the assistant is only human. No offence meant, but did you check the part number yourself before fitting the valve?

 

[Nemo1966]

Im going to order the normally closed version and hope the body is the same

Why rely on hope? Why not ask the supplier to confirm? And if they can't, then phone Honeywell and ask them?

Then Im going to go back to the place I got it from and shove it up the assistants .......

It's not all clear from your postings that any mistake was made by the assistant. Did you give them the correct part number, for example?

Even if you did, the assistant is only human. No offence meant, but did you check the part number yourself before fitting the valve?

Well by posting "Then Im going to go back to the place I got it from and shove it up the assistants ....." I thought I had made it clear.

I took the whole valve to the merchants and asked for a direct replacement. Also denoted by the text "apparently a direct replacement" in my first post.

"No offence meant, but did you check the part number yourself before fitting the valve?"

Well no as the assistant told me they did not make that part anymore and it was "a direct replacement" hence thinking checking the part numbers would be futile. Another reason for shoving it up his.... as it seems he lied.

The place I got it from is an established "combustion controls" centre in Nottigham. (not B&Q or other such place).

As for ringing honeywell... has anyone got a number, Ive searched the website and cannot find a phone contact anywhere.

thanks

 

[Softus]

Well by posting "Then Im going to go back to the place I got it from and shove it up the assistants ....." I thought I had made it clear.

The only thing you made clear is that you're p*ssed off.

I took the whole valve to the merchants and asked for a direct replacement. Also denoted by the text "apparently a direct replacement" in my first post.

I had no idea what "apparently" meant in that context.

it seems he lied.

I think you've jumped to the conclusion that he lied, and that you're a bit arsy.

Notwithstanding all that, I found the following in about two clicks of a Google search:

http://content.honeywell.com/uk/homes/tech.htm
Our dedicated team provides technical support to installers and contractors for Honeywell’s range of domestic heating (Sundial, Smartfit etc.) and water control products. Call our local call rate number 08457 678999, but please be patient at busy times.

The support team is available Monday to Friday from 09:00 to 17:00 and will provide the answers to installation queries on site.