Hot Water & Central Heating to Loft Conversion

[duffy78]

Hi all, first time poster. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

I am currently planning my loft conversion for my 3 bed semi. Im pretty well sorted with the layout and struc design (i'm a civil/structural designer)

What im not so up on is the plumbing side of things.

Currently i have a boiler providing hot water and heating to my house, the boiler has a hot water cylinder at first floor level and a cold water storage and an expansion tank in the loft.

I know that if i replaced this with a condesing combi boiler then i could get rid of the tanks, but i have a power shower in my main bathroom so this is a no go.

the cold water tanks im planning on putting in the peak of the roof, above the proposed loft ceiling.

I also know that i wont be able to provide radiators in the loft due to them being above the hot water cylinder, is this the same for the hot water supply for my proposed ensuite? will i have problems with water pressure?

Could anyone give me any guidance as to what modifications my system will require to give me what i want, a heated loft with running hot water.

I appreciate any advice.

I was considering electric underfloor heating to solve that side of things.

 

[powell30]

Duffy, is your heating system pumped?? If so as long as the F&E is above the rads in the loft conversion i see no reason why you can't fit them in.

Also, why not consider a combi? A well spec'ed one with adequate pressure and flow on mains will come close to a power shower ie it will be pretty powerful.

 

[duffy78]

thanks for the quick reply powell,

yes my system is pumped, are you saying as long as the feeder and expansion tanks are above the rads and new ensuite then i will be ok?

i assumed the hot water cylinder would also have to be above the rads and ensuite????

the reason for not wanting a combi is due to the fact that i only refurbed the bathroom 2 years ago with an all singing and dancing power shower (that now buzzes like a mutha! but thats for another post!)

plus to keep the costs of the loft conversion down as well.

 

[powell30]

No...perhaps we are at cross purposes.....heating side pumped.....as long as the f&e is above highest rads you should be able to install rads.....water.....cylinder position makes no difference (within reason) water flow/pressure is defined by the height the csw is at. So, if the height differential is say 3 metres you will achieve .3 of a bar of pressure.........4 ft and you will get a dribble.....it will run but not fast. So, you can fit an en-suite up there but the water pressure and flow will be low.

 

[duffy78]

thanks again for the advice powell.

so in your opinion i should be ok putting radiators up there. my central heating system is pumped, it sort of makes sense now. my expansion and cold water supply tanks will be moved into the apex of the lofts roof, they will be 1.6m higher than the radiators.

Hot water to the ensuite, the ensuite will be approx 2.8 from bottom of hot water cylinder to where the taps would be, this in your opinion would be to great a difference to get respectable flow. is there anything i could do to improve this? maybe an additional boiler just for the conversion?

would a power shower still work in the loft? or would the pump run dry due to lack of water.

also what does csw stand for?

thanks again.

 

[powell30]

CWS.....cold water storage tank

You should get ok flow/pressure 2.8m down from the cws.....seems a long way from apex to ensuite. You have a very high vaulted ceiling?......pumped water would be on hot side.....just depends on how big the storage capacity of your CWS is that is feeding the cylinder, ideally you want to match the cold water pressure so you may either need a balancing valve.....or run cold from storage too and pump this as well. Just make allowances for sizeing

A small combi would run your rads and hot water requirements just as easily, although flow rates to a mixer shower wouldn't be great but acceptable.

 

[duffy78]

taps and rads would be 1.6 down from cws.

hot water cylinder would be 2.8 down from taps and rads.

 

[wiggikins]

CWS.....cold water storage tank

You should get ok flow/pressure 2.8m down from the cws.....seems a long way from apex to ensuite. You have a very high vaulted ceiling?......pumped water would be on hot side.....just depends on how big the storage capacity of your CWS is that is feeding the cylinder, ideally you want to match the cold water pressure so you may either need a balancing valve.....or run cold from storage too and pump this as well. Just make allowances for sizeing

A small combi would run your rads and hot water requirements just as easily, although flow rates to a mixer shower wouldn't be great but acceptable.

And there's me thinking for the last 25 Years that it was a Cold Water Storage CISTERN !DUHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[duffy78]

And there's me thinking for the last 25 Years that it was a Cold Water Storage CISTERN !DUHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks for that, really helpful

 

[tryitandsee]

If you put the cold water tank in the apex, make sure you can access the top of the thing, for servicing the float valve/torbeck or whatever valve you choose. Obviously, make sure all is well lagged as it will get cold up there, also make sure you take care about the transfer of noise into the room below.

 

[duffy78]

If you put the cold water tank in the apex, make sure you can access the top of the thing, for servicing the float valve/torbeck or whatever valve you choose. Obviously, make sure all is well lagged as it will get cold up there, also make sure you take care about the transfer of noise into the room below.

ok, thanks for that, i will bare it in mind.

so far i've got to, keep my existing CH system, have an additional 2 small radiators in the loft, raise F&E and cold water cistern into peak of loft conversion (taking care to lag and make adequate room for access)

Pumped electric shower running off cold mains, use existing hot water system to feeed basin (will result in low pressure but am assuming it will be adequate to fill a small bowl in reasonable time)

 

[spacethegas]

Pumped electric shower running off cold mains

by all means fit an electric shower, but you cannot pump the mains.

 

[duffy78]

Pumped electric shower running off cold mains

by all means fit an electric shower, but you cannot pump the mains.

ok thanks,

how about a pumped elec shower feeding from the cold water cistern???

 

[spacethegas]

yep.

thinking about it do they make such a beast.

 

[duffy78]

yep.

thinking about it do they make such a beast.

something like this???

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Showers_Index/Pumped_Showers/