Hot Water from Rayburn

[Tempiz]

Hi, I'm hoping someone could please help with a few questions I have about the current DHW setup that is in situ in a property I'm in the process of buying.

To summarise, there is a Rayburn No.2 (pre 'New Pattern', right hand oven) which is heating water in a hot water cylinder currently located in the kitchen. It has an immersion heater also. The airing cupboard takes up a vast space in the kitchen and I would like to move it to the bathroom that adjoins the end of the kitchen.

There is NO heating in the property other than open fireplaces downstairs. Mains gas is not in the property but is close nearby (my parents own the house next door which does have gas).

My questions are

1) What type of HW Cylinder is this, and what are its main characteristics?
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This is the Rayburn
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Pipework from it to cylinder
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Airing cupboard (behind chair) and bathroom beyond
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Pipework in bathroom to bath and sink, notice nice job down window bar!!
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Area where I'd like to re-situate cylinder
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2) Given the above setup, is it ok to run pipes at a lower level? I would like to replace the bath along the wall where the sink currently is so pipes can be under bath and window.

3) As the cold water is rising main, could I have a shower run from the stored hot water and rising main? I've seen negative head shower pumps but not sure if this would be ok. There is no space above the bathroom for stored cold water as is a vaulted ceiling single storey extension.

4) Could you recommend a shower type to run from this setup that, at a later time, may be compatible with a combi boiler that replaces the stored hot water system. It is my ultimate aim to stop using the rayburn in favour of a gas range and combi boiler central heating system.

5) I would welcome any suggestion about an alternative to the cylinder if it's a real dog. I'm mindful that it's not lagged, but have read elsewhere that where the DHW is a by-product from the rayburn there are benefits of the escaping heat as a heat source for the room the tank is in.

6) Is it possible to run a radiator(s) or towel heater somewhere in the setup, ideally in the bathroom? How is this incorporated if possible?

Many thanks in advance for your help. All comments appreciated.

Nick.

 

[twgas]

The cylinder is a Fortic aka combination cylinder (and possibly other names depending on the locale). It might even be a primatic fortic, I can't see any evidence of an open vent going to a f&e tank.
I wouldn't recommend a mixer type shower on different supplies, an electric one may be a better option.
I can't see why a rad couldn't be incorporated but I'm sure a solid fuel Rayburn expert will be along shortly.

 

[Tempiz]

Thank you twgas. As far as i can tell there is no F&E located anywhere else. As far as an electric shower is concerned, it was my original plan, but getting a 10mm cable from the front of the house to the rear would be a real nightmare, plus the consumer unit would need replacing sooner rather than later as it's a fusewire wylex type. Would be talking about a 20m run approx, which by the time the relevant factors have been discounted from the wattage capacity of the cable, I'd probably be looking at a 8kw shower at best. Don't fancy trying to run 16mm! Was also hoping to have a mixer shower from a combi when funding permits, so installing an electric will be a false economy in the long run.

 

[Nige F]

2- only the return @ lower level .and it all depends how high the fortic tank is I`d resite it with just enough room above the top to get the ballvalve and ball out the pipes from fortic to rayburn then need to fall slightly to rayburn end You could put a rad in line . BUT it` needs 3/4 inch tappings and probably needs to be cast iron because I`m not convinced the fortic is a primatic ...it`s probably just a direct one . Tap the rad both it`s flow and return into the return to the rayburn like a one pipe setup. .That`s all you get for now

 

[tryitandsee]

Lovely place, got real character.

Looks like the hot water source from the rayburn to the fortic tank is gently rising for the gravity effect to work.
If you then put the tank in the bathroom at back of bath, you would then have to keep the pipework still rising, which may be difficult to achieve, without looking ugly. So you would need a pump etc. That involves much more technical thought and expense. Looks like it was set up in the simplist way, which is ideal for stoves/rayburns/aga etc.


I would wait and see what the situation is regards the mains gas supply to the house. You say your parents are connected next door, so no problem their I would have thought. then go the combi/heat only boiler route.
When enquiring at whoever (transco/bg etc.) make sure you let them think you are considering the opposite to what they are offering as a primary heat source, that way they may then offer you an incentive to choose them.

Good luck with this interesting project.

 

[twgas]

I`m not convinced the fortic is a primatic ...it`s probably just a direct one

would a direct one not cause the water to get brown (rusty)? not questioning your knowledge/experience etc - just always happy to learn.
op, if you could post a pic of the flow and return connections ay the cylinder we may be able to confirm what you've got.

 

[Nige F]

I`m not convinced the fortic is a primatic ...it`s probably just a direct one

would a direct one not cause the water to get brown (rusty)? not questioning your knowledge/experience etc - just always happy to learn.
op, if you could post a pic of the flow and return connections ay the cylinder we may be able to confirm what you've got.

No - the back boiler in rayburn would be cast iron -if it`s an old solid fuel one ( The only proper Rayburn ) Gas/ oil one *might* be steel which would need a primatic or separate f+e cistern. Indeed the Fortic should be marked if it`s an unusual one .

 

[Tempiz]

Thank you all for your replies. It would seem that my initial thoughts of his being a pipe extension job is far more complicated. I would not be adversed to a pump if it would solve the situation as I really need to free up the space that the airing cupboard is taking in the kitchen.

Is the quirk of the angled pipes to do with the type of cylinder in use or of the rayburn itself?

Lastly, could the system be improved, with a different cylinder maybe?

 

[tryitandsee]

Is the quirk of the angled pipes to do with the type of cylinder in use or of the rayburn itself?

The laws of physics, heat rises. cold falls, The simple set up is always the easiest, which is what you have got. No pumps or electrics.