House takes ages to warm up

[alucard]

We moved into our house nearly 6 years ago. Since moving in the house has taken ages to warm up. Down stairs takes a couple of hours to warm up but upstairs can take all night but never get as warm as downstairs.

I originaly thought it was the double glazing so had this replaced which made a difference downstairs but upstairs still takes alnight to warm up.

I've also replaces the old rads with new and added a small rad in our small spare room as this didn't have one.

I have put more insulation in the loft but this hasn't made any difference either.

We were away for a week and only had the heating on for 4 hours (2 hrs at a time) in 24hrs. When we got back it took 2 days to get ride of the chill in the air upstairs.

The ceilings upstairs are 2.8M high so am assuming this doesn't help.

Any suggestions on how to sort this out so our heating bill will not give me a heart attack after this winter?

Thanks
Terry

 

[namsag]

Are the rads hot to the touch after say 20 mins if so then the rads are undersized for the size of room if not you may have a system fault or boiler not set up correctly.
How old a system , is it fully pumped or gravity HW pumped heating

 

[JohnD]

What temp do you set the room stat to? Do you have TRVs? How many hours a day do you have the heating on? What size of house to you have? How old? What sort of construction? Is it detached or what? Does it have cavity wall insulation? How much loft insulation do you have? How big are the radiators and how big are the rooms? Are the downstairs rads bigger or more numerous? Do you leave the internal doors open when the heating is on? Are the radiators "too hot to hold for long" all over, and is the incoming (flow) pipe to each radiator "too hot to hold"? What part of the UK are you in?

How much gas do you use per year? How much extra was it this year, after the coldest December for 500 years?

 

[alucard]

Thanks for the replies.

Its an end terrace house, built in the 30's I think. Not sure about cavity call insulation (someone comming round at the weekend to quote).

Upstairs There are 3 bedrooms, 1 bathroom.

The master bedroom has 2 external walls with a large double rad. Room is give or take 3M square

The big spare room has a double small rad with 1 external wall and this room seems fine but there is a lot more furnature in there. Room is about 3M square.

The small room is 2M square and has a single small rad with 1 external wall.

The bathroom is about 2Mx3M with a large single Rad. With 2 external walls.

Downstairs we have 2 old large single rads and 1 new large double rad.

Central heating system was in before we moved in 6 years ago. Rads do get hot to touch but not sure how long it takes.

Most of the loft has 2 layers of unsulation.

Another thing may be affecting this is that as the rooms are so tall that a small section of each ceiling is angled. Plasterboard onto the roof beams. So unsure what insultaion is here or even how I would go about adding insultaion without removing the ceiling. (sorry not very good as explaining this)


(Another issue which I do not know if its related or not hence why I'll mention it.
In the master bedroom we have a condentation issue at the top of out chimney breast wall. Have exposed the brickwork and painted damp proof paint, replastered and papered. Proplem persists. Had the chimney repointed and capped. Problem persists.)

hope this help.

 

[JohnD]

can you tell us what size "large" and "small" are?

and how thick is "two layers"

you may need to crawl into the loft and see if insulation has been pushed into the sloping ceilings, and how thick it is.

Please gauge how hot the rads are as I described.

If you can answer the other questions too, that will be great.

 

[Agile]

Whilst you have said a lot of words saying a rad is large or small does not tell us what the heat output may be.

You can estimate that by comparing them with current catalogues.

Again saying the rads feel hot is no good indication of the temperature. Can you keep holding the tops? What is the boiler make and model?

A whole house heat loss calculation would be a good help.

Tony

 

[alucard]

I'll check how hot the rad and pipes get when I get home but I do think they get hot. The rads get hot all over and I have checked the bleed every rad.

Upstairs:
The large double rad i think is:
Height (mm): 500
Width (mm): 1000
Depth (mm): 104
Brand: Kudox
Colour: White
Fixings included: Yes
Power (Watts): 1476
Category: Steel Panel Radiators
Category: Double Steel Panel Radiators
BTU: 5217
Finish: White

Small Double Rad I think is:
Height (mm): 600
Width (mm): 400
Depth (mm): 104
Brand: Kudox
Colour: White
Fixings included: Yes
Power (Watts): 686
Category: Steel Panel Radiators
Category: Double Steel Panel Radiators
BTU: 2442
Finish: White

Small single rad I think is:
Height (mm): 600
Width (mm): 400
Depth (mm): 49
Brand: Kudox
Colour: White
Fixings included: Yes
Power (Watts): 369
Category: Steel Panel Radiators
Category: Single Steel Panel Radiators
BTU: 1401
Finish: White

Bathroom Large Single rad i think is:
Height (mm): 500
Width (mm): 1000
Depth (mm): 49
Brand: Kudox
Colour: White
Fixings included: Yes
Power (Watts): 797
Category: Steel Panel Radiators
Category: Single Steel Panel Radiators
BTU: 2989
Finish: White

Downstairs:
The large double rad i think is:
Height (mm): 500
Width (mm): 1000
Depth (mm): 104
Brand: Kudox
Colour: White
Fixings included: Yes
Power (Watts): 1476
Category: Steel Panel Radiators
Category: Double Steel Panel Radiators
BTU: 5217
Finish: White

Other 2 Rads are old and about 1100mm wide and about 500mm High.

I only have a stat on the Boiler so no room stat or individual rad control.

I've tried to look in the sloping ceiling when I was in the loft before but couldnt see. I'm up in the loft soon so will try again.

Is there anything I can "pour" in the sloping sections if it is missing?

I live in nottinghamshire.

 

[Axel]

Sounds like a boiler / pump issue. Or pipework was never correct.

 

[JohnD]

no room stat or individual rad control.

you need to get a room stat. That will enable you to run the heating hard until the house is warm, then it will automatically shut off. With no room stat you are doomed either to have a cold castle, or a needlessly hot one and waste energy.

Radiator TRVs are useful but more expensive and much more work to fit; and you must get a room stat first.

What sort of programmer/timer have you got?

What sort of boiler have you got? if it is reasonably powerful you can increase the rad sizes. Mine are twice that size (the rooms heat up quickly, then the thermostic controls and boiler throttle back to avoid overheating or waste)

 

[xr4x4]

no room stat or individual rad control.

you need to get a room stat. That will enable you to run the heating hard until the house is warm, then it will automatically shut off. With no room stat you are doomed either to have a cold castle, or a needlessly hot one and waste energy.

eh?

 

[JohnD]

With no room stat (and, as in this case, no TRVs either) most often the boiler and pump will keep running even after some or all of the house is too hot, which wastes energy.

or if you have the boiler stat turned down, and small rads or the lockshields turned down to prevent overheating, it will usually be too cold, and slow to warm up

With thermostatic controls, you can have oversized rads if you want, for faster heating of the house from cold.



p.s. Alucard lives in a castle (eltsac)

 

[xr4x4]

yes i agree, but having a room stat wont make the boiler work harder.

you need to get a room stat. That will enable you to run the heating hard until the house is warm

 

[JohnD]

OK, I meant you can turn up the boiler stat and the pump, if you need to, to get max output from the rads. If a modulating boiler, it will not reduce until all the rads are hot, which will take longer if they are big than if they are smaller ones, and you will be delivering more heat from rads to rooms, and more heat from boiler to rads, if they are bigger.

 

[Agile]

Your rads seem to total about 7 kW.

With solid walls you could easily have a heat loss of 10-11 kW !

We still have not heard what kind of boiler you have and what the CH flow temperature is likely to be.

You say they are "hot" but that means little . A shower is "hot" at 42 degrees!

You can keep your hand on a rad at 42 degrees but not at 75 degrees or 82 degrees.

Tony

 

[ianniann]

I can keep my hand comfortably on a radiator at 50C. At 60C it is OK for a second or two. Above that you don't want to be touching it with bare skin. 40C feels just barely warm.