Hoval Topgas condensing 45-4 KW... thoughts?

[phb10186]

Hi all,

I have just bought a Hoval TopGas condensing boiler 45-4 KW with listed 108% efficiency....

I just wanted your thoughts on this boiler, and i'll give you some of the history that goes with it.

I used to have an open-vented system, with a 42 x 18' indirect copper cylinder and a Potterton Kingfisher 150 non-condensing 50KW (200K BTU, 150 K BTU net) boiler.

I have changed this to a pressurised Megaflow 250 HE cylinder, and have just bought the Hoval boiler... I was going to go for a Keston C55 or a Vaillant, in a couple of years - but the old Porrteton is pretty uneconomic to run, and to be honest, with a complete new system, it was a shame not to modernise the boiler at this time.

This is a 5 bed house with 25 radiators, one bath and two showers, with the possibility of extending in a few years.

What are your thoughts on Hoval boilers. I checked out their website, and they seem pretty good, but not as common in the UK as others.

Also, when I was looking at various boilers, the Keston C55 is about 97% efficient, although the Hoval website cites over 100% efficiency, which is impossible as far as I can see. I assume it matches the Keston with similar efficiency.

Many thanks for your thoughts.

 

[mickyg]

Never seen one. When buying a boiler, I always think its wise to make sure that there is good support for the product in event of failure. How quickly will an engineer attend to a warranty fault? how quickly can spares be obtained and how much will a pcb, gas valve and fan be?
Efficiencies quoted by manufacturers of standard A rated condensers should largely be taken with a pinch of salt. You wouldn't notice a huge difference in efficiency between different A rated boilers once installed. If you want efficiency then investment in the right controls and the design of the system is far more important.
Kestons I have had dealings with and I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy.
The only thing I find odd is that you haven't consulted your installer about your choice of equipment.

 

[phb10186]

The only thing I find odd is that you haven't consulted your installer about your choice of equipment.

We have, we were recommended Bosch/ Worcester, Keston, Vaillant and Hoval...

Google Hoval, they look pretty smart... parts are fairly easy to source.

We have not had any problems with the Potterton Kingfisher ever, and the only reason to change is to get an A rated condensor, it will use 25% less gas.

 

[spudkey]

Never fitted a topgas, but have installed plenty of larger hovals, ultragas ect,
never had any issues and always found their technical support to excellent.

 

[D_Hailsham]

Also, when I was looking at various boilers, the Keston C55 is about 97% efficient, although the Hoval website cites over 100% efficiency, which is impossible as far as I can see.

The difference in efficiency is due to the calculation methods used. Hoval are using the procedure laid down in DIN4702 part 8.


If it's of any comfort to you, Hoval have a Royal Warrant as boiler suppliers to the Queen.

 

[Biggles..]

Congrats on a superb choice.

Hoval are bang on, I'm biased as they're local to me( WDIK will tell you more as one of his previous employers are in partnership with them) and the topgas is a good low output boiler.

All you need to do now is find a commercial installer, even though its rated at 45KW,Hoval class this as a commercial product and their manufacturing info asks for commercial installers and service engineers to work on them.

Lots of boilers are in excess of 100% efficient when the system load is around the 30-40% mark.

Vaillant are 108% eff at 30% for most of their large products.They also have a 95% HE boiler thats NON condensing.

 

[WDIK]

thanks Lee yes Ive been involve with Hoval for 20yrs, their reputation is everthing, their technical support is exceptional, my contact was a guy called Pete Roper, but most likely retired now.
based in newark, you can roll up to their front door.
they for years have manufactured multi fuel boilers, oil, gas, coal, and wood pellet.
I cant speak highly enough of them, but I think they are far too good for the likes of the domestic market, or for plumbers to play with

no, the arnt micky mouse boilers like ideal valient keston baxi potterton et al shlte, made from recycled dog food tins and left over meccano.

 

[phb10186]

thanks Lee yes Ive been involve with Hoval for 20yrs, their reputation is everthing, their technical support is exceptional, my contact was a guy called Pete Roper, but most likely retired now.
based in newark, you can roll up to their front door.
they for years have manufactured multi fuel boilers, oil, gas, coal, and wood pellet.
I cant speak highly enough of them, but I think they are far too good for the likes of the domestic market, or for plumbers to play with

no, the arnt micky mouse boilers like ideal valient keston baxi potterton et al shlte, made from recycled dog food tins and left over meccano.

Well I am pretty excited about this, as they are only a small company in the UK, and after doing the research, their website makes them look pretty impressive. Especially the larger red industrial stuff. Very good indeed.


The combination of Megaflow HE and this Hoval will hopefully provide me with a good CH system!

I got the boiler second hand actually, as I think that there might be changes afoot RE fuel consumption policy in the newxt few years, so a used one represented good value. It's a Topgas 45-4 - do you happen to know what full retail was/ is on these?

I was actually investigating the option of a dual fuel gas and coal boiler, but it's just not a big think in the UK.

Coal is extremely cost effective for heating nowadays from what I can glean...

I am actually debating leaving my old Potterton Kingfisher 57KW non-condensing boiler (which works 100%) in sutu, and connecting the Hoval up to it, so that I can use the Keston if the Hoval ever goes wrong or needs fixing etc etc...

What do you guys think of that plan?

The Kingfisher is only worth it's weight in potatos now anyway... but has lasted a good 25 years with no issues other than I think a thermocouple once...

I am sure that this Hoval will be a really good unit.

I get pretty excited about good quality, efficient stuff - I guess I am just a bit passionate with it all, but this Hoval seemed like something a bit better and different, and as I am spending a load on this full reinstallation of the CH system at home, I thought that this Hoval would be the icing on the cake!

 

[Boilerman2]

The Topgas is a good wall hung condenser, heat exch is Alluminium alloy,, looks a bit like an Ideal Imax, it uses the tried & tested Honeywell MBA Control system as used by Remeha, ideal, Keston, MHS, etc

Hoval have an excellent reputation in the commercial & Industrial maket, the only critism I can make is the high cost of spare parts for top gas boilers

 

[Newcastle88]

lets hope that Remeha apply the Honeywell MBA control system to the baxi & potterton now that they have bought them as i am getting a little sick of E168 on there duo tecs

 

[Biggles..]

high cost parts are too be expected for any commercial product.

for a comparative sized boiler i'll give an example,recently swapped a pcb on a Sherbourne...£650+vat for part alone.

Big boiler,big pipe,big money as an old saying goes.

 

[phb10186]

what do you guys think of leaving my old Potterton Kingfisher in sutu, and connecting my new Hoval up as well, and having the option to use the potterton in the future if the Hoval ever breaks down or needs work doing?

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Id be interested to hear opinions from those more knowlegeable on that one! Personally, provided there were steps taken to prevent reverse circulation through the Potterton I dont see why not, the Kingfisher seemed a simple and robust bit of kit. Mine dated from 1981, took it out simply because it was taking up room in the kitchen, and I wanted to upgrade the system. New boiler is wall hung in utility room.

I remember various time served guys drawing lots of diagrams in the merchants while I was supplying the tea as an apprentice. One had a client who wanted an AGA and a Myson Velaire installing in parallel so the Myson would kick in when the AGA wasn't hot enough, then the AGA taking over when it was up to temperature. Sadly I wasnt clued up enough then to fully understand the jist of what was decided!

 

[phb10186]

Id be interested to hear opinions from those more knowlegeable on that one! Personally, provided there were steps taken to prevent reverse circulation through the Potterton I dont see why not, the Kingfisher seemed a simple and robust bit of kit. Mine dated from 1981, took it out simply because it was taking up room in the kitchen, and I wanted to upgrade the system. New boiler is wall hung in utility room.

I remember various time served guys drawing lots of diagrams in the merchants while I was supplying the tea as an apprentice. One had a client who wanted an AGA and a Myson Velaire installing in parallel so the Myson would kick in when the AGA wasn't hot enough, then the AGA taking over when it was up to temperature. Sadly I wasnt clued up enough then to fully understand the jist of what was decided!

well the old kingfisher is already connected, and I have space in a boiler room to add the Hoval - the kingfisher is worth nout, and there is sense in having the ability to change between the two.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I totally agree, the Kingfishers are virtually bomb proof I think. Made me sweat trying to get my old girl out of the house, and that was after i'd stripped as much as I could off it! I think TBH it would still happily be going strong now had it been left insitu, and as you say its probably worth more left as a backup than its scrap value.

I suppose like a lot of the old boilers, the beauty is in the simplicity, no fans, PCB's, only a thermocouple change as required. The biggest issue is they're inefficient, and eat gas!