I found some old antique brass lights which I had re-threaded to include an earth but my electrician said he is not happy to fit them. He says the lights should be withdrawn on grounds of health and safety. What should I do to ensure the lights are completely safe?
How do I make antique lights safe to use?
- Thread starter boilerfrustration
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What is necessary depends on how the lamps are constructed.
Ensuring there is good conductivity from all metal parts to the earthing terminal is essential. It may need earth terminals to be fitted in the metal of the lamp holder with earth wire to the main earth terminal of the lamp.
If there are any swivelling or flexible joints in the construction through which wires pass then care has to be taken to ensure the wires cannot be damaged by the swivelling of the joint.
Using heat resistant cable from lamp holder is a good idea if there is any chance of the holders becoming hot in normal or abnormal use ( such as lamp of higher wattage fitted ).
Too many variables provide an accurate and safe method here.
Ensuring there is good conductivity from all metal parts to the earthing terminal is essential. It may need earth terminals to be fitted in the metal of the lamp holder with earth wire to the main earth terminal of the lamp.
If there are any swivelling or flexible joints in the construction through which wires pass then care has to be taken to ensure the wires cannot be damaged by the swivelling of the joint.
Using heat resistant cable from lamp holder is a good idea if there is any chance of the holders becoming hot in normal or abnormal use ( such as lamp of higher wattage fitted ).
Too many variables provide an accurate and safe method here.
The lamps are wall sconces. Each one is made up of a central metal piece with two screw-on hollow metal arms.
The antique shop where I bought the lights from rewired the lamps. I noticed that they had stripped off the outer wire to allow the inner wires (live and neutral) to thread through the narrow aperture of the arms. Is there a minimum standard of wire for lights?
As the arms screw on, I suspect this would be a weak point particularly given that the outer plastic has been stripped away.
On some of the lights, the earth is fitted to the base of one of the two lamp holders with a lug. On other lights, the earth is attached directly to the back of the central light piece again using a lug.
The lights which are designated for the communal areas are unlikely to overheat as they will be on 5 minute timers.
The antique shop where I bought the lights from rewired the lamps. I noticed that they had stripped off the outer wire to allow the inner wires (live and neutral) to thread through the narrow aperture of the arms. Is there a minimum standard of wire for lights?
As the arms screw on, I suspect this would be a weak point particularly given that the outer plastic has been stripped away.
On some of the lights, the earth is fitted to the base of one of the two lamp holders with a lug. On other lights, the earth is attached directly to the back of the central light piece again using a lug.
The lights which are designated for the communal areas are unlikely to overheat as they will be on 5 minute timers.
Do you mean that these lights are installed/will be installed in areas where the general public have access?
If so, the electrician is right.
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P
Paul_C
How can you say that without taking into account the condition, the way they've been rewired, and so on?
If the security of the earthing, use of proper wire, etc. as outlined by Bernard above leaves everything satisfactory, then what's the problem?
While nothing wrong with refurbishing old lighting using the proper materials, this:
The lampholders should have been replaced as well.
suggests they have not used the correct wire, but rather some piece of flex which just happened to be available at the time.
The lampholders should have been replaced as well.
P
Paul_C
Why, if there's nothing wrong them?
If nothing wrong with them, then perhaps they could be retained.
However no earth makes it many decades old, and lampholders of that age are unlikely to be in good condition.
Plus if rewiring anyway they will have to be removed, so for the sake of a few pounds, why not replace them?
However no earth makes it many decades old, and lampholders of that age are unlikely to be in good condition.
Plus if rewiring anyway they will have to be removed, so for the sake of a few pounds, why not replace them?
I'm still certain what's actually wrong with these lights.
You said they have been 're-threaded to include an earth'.
Why don't you send photos?
You said they have been 're-threaded to include an earth'.
Why don't you send photos?
Jut to clarify, the lamp holders themselves have been renewed and the earth wires have been screwed into place with lugs.
The electrician is still not happy and says that the fittings do not comply with regulation 511.1 which I can't find much about on line. Can anyone provide me with information regarding this regulation?
The electrician is still not happy and says that the fittings do not comply with regulation 511.1 which I can't find much about on line. Can anyone provide me with information regarding this regulation?
P
Paul_C
511.1 appears to be a new regulation which says something along the lines of all equipment installed being required to comply with the latest applicable British Standard or "harmonized" European equivalent. So it sounds as though he's probably one of those BS7671-bound types who is reluctant to use his own judgment regarding items such as this. You could try convincing him to do so, and record it as a deviation on the certificate.
511.2 will sort it
your spark could check continuity of earth from earth lug to parts of fitting and then do IR test across LE LN and NE. and with lamp holders replaced, he can make up is own my after.
edit mind not my.
your spark could check continuity of earth from earth lug to parts of fitting and then do IR test across LE LN and NE. and with lamp holders replaced, he can make up is own my after.
edit mind not my.
511.1 says (in general terms) that every item of equipment must comply with the relavent British Standard, etc.
511.2 says that if it doesnt meet the BS then the person responsible has to confirm that the equipment provides the same level of safety as the appropriate standard.
Your electrician ( the person responsible) obviously feels the light fittings are not fit for purpose and is not prepared to say they are. He is there, has seen the fittings and has made that judgement.
Sounds like its time for a trip to B&Q to buy some new fittings!
511.2 says that if it doesnt meet the BS then the person responsible has to confirm that the equipment provides the same level of safety as the appropriate standard.
Your electrician ( the person responsible) obviously feels the light fittings are not fit for purpose and is not prepared to say they are. He is there, has seen the fittings and has made that judgement.
Sounds like its time for a trip to B&Q to buy some new fittings!
The problem I have is that I have already paid my electrician in advance for all the works he has carried out as well as the lights he has not yet fitted. He is refusing to refund me the money for use of his time.
I have since shown the lights to 3 independent qualified electricians to obtain quotes. All said the lights were fit for purpose and each said that he would fit them.
I have since shown the lights to 3 independent qualified electricians to obtain quotes. All said the lights were fit for purpose and each said that he would fit them.
P
Paul_C
Or is simply incapable of deciding for himself, and/or simply adopts the all-too-common attitude that anything which is older is now automatically unsatisfactory.
Too many "BS7671 installers" out there now, and not enough "proper electricians."
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