How long do bulbs last? Tungsten, CFL, LED etc.

[ericmark]

Prompted after my vestibule light failed, the bulb had a glass cover, so I had not realised it had a tungsten bulb in it, a BA22d the latter quartz inside a glass envelope, and been in this house 5 years, it did get a fair bit of use, so surprised it lasted so long.

Years ago we had fluorescent in the kitchen, they would last around 5 years plus, oddly the LED used to replace it was rather short lived, and a lot more expensive, and lower light output. Also a 18 watt fluorescent HF lamp on landing, (emergency lamp) and the tubes in that would last around 20 years each, but in the house in general we would swap a tungsten bulb every couple of weeks some where in the house.

So the move to CFL was I thought going to reduce bulb changes, so living room and dinning room had 16 x 8 watt golf ball CFL fitted, together with new chandeliers, allowing us to fit more but smaller bulbs. The spec said they should last 5 years, in real terms after 18 months all the expensive Philips bulb changed to cheaper bulbs, and around this time the LED candle bulb was sold by Lidi, so we experimented with them, first set two small tried 3 watt, these went to mothers house with smaller rooms, and used 5 watt, and 5 years ago when we moved out, no failures.

So this house, the living room had a single 100 watt bulb, which was inadequate, and using 15 watt LED reminded me of the toc H candle, so we needed a chandelier with multi-bulbs, and found one with 8, so now 8 x 6 watt candle bulbs, the spread is not enough for room, so the 5 ikea billy book cases used as display cabinets on narrow end of the L shaped room, had three LED colour changing strip lights, 60 watt in all, to supplement the main light.

Over the 5 years, bulbs changed due to failures and problems staying on dim, or a shimmer, amount to around 25 bulbs. Plus a power supply failed on one strip light. Which with around 55 lamps in the house, is far more bulbs than I expected, as to actually fully failed, around 8 bulbs, but over 5 years that is really more than expected, not counting swapping tungsten to LED.

I have a draw full of bulbs, a mixture of tungsten, CFL and LED, we have two integral lamps, both bought by my wife, which I don't like as one such a pain to change when they fail, and two hard to automate. However outside light only cost £4, and the hall light was an emergency when the original failed, and this is the problem, not keeping an integral lamp in bulb draw, so a failure can take days to correct.

There will always be the exception to the rule, the fire house bulb over 100 years old (although now so dim can't be used as a bulb) or the bulb which fails within minutes of turning on. The GX53 method seems good, swapping a bit more than the basic bulb, but can still swap the lamp in minutes, but what about some thing to replace the 2D lamp, or fluorescent tube in general. What non integral options are there, which are not restricted to a single make of bulb/tube?

I want an easy maintenance home, bulb fails, switch off at wall, swap bulb, switch on at wall, integral fails, travel to find replacement, turn off at consumer unit, so a two minute job turns into a half day job, time to swap on integral unit is longer than time to charge all bulbs in the house. Why even make them?

 

[Murdochcat]

All depends on how much they cost is my experience ……

Always avoid sealed units

 

[ebee]

Varies, not just by who makes it but how it is handled during the supply chain from manufacturer thru wholesalers, thru retailers then to you and how it is stored then how it is used, including ambient temperature and number/durations of switch on.
Fluorescents hate switching on/off for short periods lots of times, once it`s on leave it on all day and it will last a lot of years,
Incandescent does suffer too.
LEDs not sure about.

It can be a how long is a piece of string experience (the answer to the string question is about between 3/8 of an inch and 8000 miles but do give or take a little)

 

[ericmark]

how long is a piece of string

The string runs up the centre of a cable, so clearly a cables length or 185.2 meters.

Yes I have wondered if having SPD helps,

All depends on how much they cost is my experience ……

And again yes cheaper the bulb the longer they seem to last.

As an electrician we would have a tube change regime, where all tubes changed in the room together, which was triggered when 1/3 had failed. But records not really kept as to how long they lasted. So not really a question for the electrician, but the home owner, in theroy with the LED we should not need to hold spares, in practice I still do.

 

[SUNRAY]

Prompted after my vestibule light failed, the bulb had a glass cover, so I had not realised it had a tungsten bulb in it, a BA22d the latter quartz inside a glass envelope, and been in this house 5 years, it did get a fair bit of use, so surprised it lasted so long.

Years ago we had fluorescent in the kitchen, they would last around 5 years plus, oddly the LED used to replace it was rather short lived, and a lot more expensive, and lower light output. Also a 18 watt fluorescent HF lamp on landing, (emergency lamp) and the tubes in that would last around 20 years each, but in the house in general we would swap a tungsten bulb every couple of weeks some where in the house.

So the move to CFL was I thought going to reduce bulb changes, so living room and dinning room had 16 x 8 watt golf ball CFL fitted, together with new chandeliers, allowing us to fit more but smaller bulbs. The spec said they should last 5 years, in real terms after 18 months all the expensive Philips bulb changed to cheaper bulbs, and around this time the LED candle bulb was sold by Lidi, so we experimented with them, first set two small tried 3 watt, these went to mothers house with smaller rooms, and used 5 watt, and 5 years ago when we moved out, no failures.

So this house, the living room had a single 100 watt bulb, which was inadequate, and using 15 watt LED reminded me of the toc H candle, so we needed a chandelier with multi-bulbs, and found one with 8, so now 8 x 6 watt candle bulbs, the spread is not enough for room, so the 5 ikea billy book cases used as display cabinets on narrow end of the L shaped room, had three LED colour changing strip lights, 60 watt in all, to supplement the main light.

Over the 5 years, bulbs changed due to failures and problems staying on dim, or a shimmer, amount to around 25 bulbs. Plus a power supply failed on one strip light. Which with around 55 lamps in the house, is far more bulbs than I expected, as to actually fully failed, around 8 bulbs, but over 5 years that is really more than expected, not counting swapping tungsten to LED.

I have a draw full of bulbs, a mixture of tungsten, CFL and LED, we have two integral lamps, both bought by my wife, which I don't like as one such a pain to change when they fail, and two hard to automate. However outside light only cost £4, and the hall light was an emergency when the original failed, and this is the problem, not keeping an integral lamp in bulb draw, so a failure can take days to correct.

There will always be the exception to the rule, the fire house bulb over 100 years old (although now so dim can't be used as a bulb) or the bulb which fails within minutes of turning on. The GX53 View attachment 357670method seems good, swapping a bit more than the basic bulb, but can still swap the lamp in minutes, but what about some thing to replace the 2D lamp, or fluorescent tube in general. What non integral options are there, which are not restricted to a single make of bulb/tube?

I want an easy maintenance home, bulb fails, switch off at wall, swap bulb, switch on at wall, integral fails, travel to find replacement, turn off at consumer unit, so a two minute job turns into a half day job, time to swap on integral unit is longer than time to charge all bulbs in the house. Why even make them?

My personal experience is incansescent bulbs last longer than any others and have always cost less to buy, I'm really not convinced theoverall cost of LED lighting is cheaper than old fashioned bulbs

 

[ericmark]

I do wonder how much the SPD has changed bulb life? All types. The old tungsten bulb had a pearl finish and so spread the light in all directions other than base, the removal of the pearl finish law, resulted in a rather harsh pin point light and reduced the spread, but this time of year the heating effect resulted in the basic wall thermostat being enough, being white it reflected the inferred heat so when lights were switched on we got that heat as a plus, when the bulbs were changed for CFL then also had to fit a programmable thermostat, and the higher the air temperature the higher the losses, so in winter months the tungsten saved energy.

However the energy performance certificate (EPC) includes the bulbs, seems odd as it does not include cooker, and waste from a gas cooker when compared with an induction hob is huge. Plus it makes the house damp. The order of items in the EPC seems strange, Step 1: Floor insulation (solid floor) Typical installation cost £4,000 - £6,000 Typical yearly saving £48 moves rating 2 points, and at those prices 83 years to get pay back, sure many stop reading at that point, and one does wonder how the inspector knew the insulation was not there? The next three have been done, Step 2: Low energy lighting Step 3: Solar water heating Step 4: Solar photovoltaic panels, 2.5 kWp not sure if using electric solar panels to heat water is what it meant, but they give me 10 more points. Still one short to get into next band.

But the Step 2: Low energy lighting says Typical installation cost £50 Typical yearly saving £56 so there were 12 bulbs, not any more as fitted chandeliers, but £4 per bulb seems reasonable, so saving, original 11 x 60, 1 x 150 (actually had a 100 watt fitted but was not enough) now, 15 x GU10 say 5 watt, 13 x candle SES say 6 watt, 6 x BA22D at 12 watt, 5 x G9 at 4 watt, so 810 watt dropped to 246 watt, so 565 watt saved, if all lights used for average of 6 hours a night, the figure saved is more than my total electric bill. Last month is reasonably average at 258 kWh back ground use is around 500 watt, which is over what used 360 kWh so clearly well out due to solar production. Consumption 419 kWh but the problem is one can't count the savings twice.

So living room alone, had a 100 watt bulb when we moved in, and today we have 8 x 6 watt candle centre, and 60 watt cabinet lighting, three uplighters 12 watt each, and a couple of reading lamps at 5 watt each, so total 154 watt, as said the 100 watt not bright enough, should have been 150 watt for size of room, and today we can select how much light, by switching on/off and dimming, so unlikely ever using full 154 watt, but fail to see how we can say LED saves money? The price of the central chandelier alone with the 8 x 6 watt candle, and plug in ceiling rose was over £200, plus bulbs likely another £30, and energy saved 52 watt, so 16p per hour saved, at 6 hours per night will take 6 years to break even. Assuming no bulbs fail.

All I can say, politicians must be very poor at maths.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Fluorescents hate switching on/off for short periods lots of times, once it`s on leave it on all day and it will last a lot of years,
Incandescent does suffer too.

Back in the day, someone mentioned a calculation comparing wasted power leaving them on, versus cost of replacement due to switch on/off wear and tear, to the light fittings. I seem to recall it worked out at around 1 1/2 hours.

I used to have a 2D fitting illuminating the drive - on for a few hours each evening. They would expire in a matter of weeks.

Since changing the most used lamps to LED, I have suffered zero failures, except for one fitting. That an outdoor lantern fitting, on at dusk, off at 11pm. That went through two LED lamps, until I arrived at the conclusion that it was running too warm, in the enclosed space, so I added some ventilation - since when, the LED lamp has lasted for years..

LED's do not like running too warm.

 

[Sureitsoff?]

I have used some 2w led bulbs in place of 25 & 40w bulbs and see no real drop in light output. At present I have about a total 10w of led lighting in various lamps in the lounge compared with a previous 120w and most of my bulbs come from Poundland apart from some from the clearance sale at toolstation with four 2.1w for 50p for the four

 

[SUNRAY]

I do wonder how much the SPD has changed bulb life?

Not at all in my case

All types. The old tungsten bulb had a pearl finish and so spread the light in all directions other than base,

And most LED equivalents don't, so create significant dark areas

Our lounge has a fitting with 5 bulbs, oldyworldy glass shades sitting on arms. 5x25W candle bulbs was far too bright to watch TV, 5x7W candle LED gives a very bright patch on the ceiling but not enough to read book by. Interstingly the wall lights with similar (But not the same) shades don't have the same degree of downwards attenuation but I find we now habitually use all the lights (8x7W) where we would have tended to only have one or two wall lights @ 25W each. About 20 years ago I started using CFL's (and due totheir short lifespan started writing the date on them). We redecorated the lounge during 2020 and replaced the 5 25W candle bulbs (at least 20 years old), the last CFL in the house and 2 LEDsl with a full set of matching LEDs (£24), since then we have replaced 3 bulbs (£9). No I'm not convinced about the savings either. The situation in out hall and landing has been featured here before and even worst stats

But the Step 2: Low energy lighting says Typical installation cost £50 Typical yearly saving £56 so there were 12 bulbs, not any more as fitted chandeliers, but £4 per bulb seems reasonable, so saving, original 11 x 60, 1 x 150 (actually had a 100 watt fitted but was not enough) now, 15 x GU10 say 5 watt, 13 x candle SES say 6 watt, 6 x BA22D at 12 watt, 5 x G9 at 4 watt, so 810 watt dropped to 246 watt, so 565 watt saved, if all lights used for average of 6 hours a night, the figure saved is more than my total electric bill. Last month is reasonably average at 258 kWh back ground use is around 500 watt, which is over what used 360 kWh so clearly well out due to solar production. Consumption 419 kWh but the problem is one can't count the savings twice.

So living room alone, had a 100 watt bulb when we moved in, and today we have 8 x 6 watt candle centre, and 60 watt cabinet lighting, three uplighters 12 watt each, and a couple of reading lamps at 5 watt each, so total 154 watt, as said the 100 watt not bright enough, should have been 150 watt for size of room, and today we can select how much light, by switching on/off and dimming, so unlikely ever using full 154 watt, but fail to see how we can say LED saves money? The price of the central chandelier alone with the 8 x 6 watt candle, and plug in ceiling rose was over £200, plus bulbs likely another £30, and energy saved 52 watt, so 16p per hour saved, at 6 hours per night will take 6 years to break even. Assuming no bulbs fail.

We had a quote for PV system about 10 years ago, part of the liesofficial figures included replacing all of the existing bulbs with LED and assumed all were in use for an average of 5 hours per day to calculate the savings, that figure alone exceeded our annual electricity bill, not only that the 25 year saving also covered the cost of the PV installation. When I questioned the inaccuracies I was told it was all using governments guidelines.

All I can say, politicians must be very poor at maths.

 

[ericmark]

LED's do not like running too warm.

This is the argument for integral lamps, better cooling.

and see no real drop in light output

That is what I considered when about 7 years ago we swapped the CFL for the LED in the living room in old house, until I tried to read, we had gone 10 x 8W CFL to 8 x 3W LED, and when we tried to read, had to go 8 x 5W LED. Hotter colour temperature made them look brighter.

We had a quote for PV system about 10 years ago

10 years ago we were fitting PV systems with the idea that export would pay for import, To day for the PV system to work we rely on batteries to bridge the gaps in solar production.

There will always be some import, but if that import is mainly off peak, then between off peak ending and starting again (19 hours in my case) the solar and battery should mean hardly any import at peak rate.

But you raise a good point, the system needs to be integrated with other items in the house, heat pumps in summer are great, if we need to cool the house, then likely loads of sun, but in the winter the reverse is true.

The amount of battery storage to power a heat pump on off peak would be silly, so looking at other methods to store the heat. The main problem is heat storage system leak heat, so the house needs to be super insulated and have items like heat recovery units installed, and the home needs to be kept warm 24/7 so heat required during peak times is at a minimum.

So it may work with a new build, but not with existing housing. Also of course new builds will have roof access and walk ways on the roof to clean and maintain solar panels, this would be hard to add to existing homes, seen it done a lot in Turkey, not seen many UK homes with roof access except for very old homes, often called castles.

 

[cdbe]

My experience is that CFLs don't last long in my "brick lights" - damp and variable temperature, slightly better in my garage - dry but variable temperature - my stock of CFLs is over 10 years old so I don't know whether storage degrades them but some of them don't work out of the box.

I now use led in both situations - their lifespan is far better in the bricklights and the warm up from cold in the garage is 10 times better.

I only use them inside for "cupboards" and the like on cost grounds.