How to choose LED bulbs

[Ronob]

Im looking at changing our household lights with LED bulbs but totally lost!
So far I have been told by a shopkeeper that the rule of thumb is go for "warm" lights in all rooms except bathroom & kitchen, and that 10% of the wattage you have now will be the equivalent in LED i.e. 60watt 'old style' = 6watt LED.

That's my first stumbling block because looking at websites and bulb boxes I have seen 4, 5 and 6watt LEDs claiming to be the same as 60watt - assuming you can find a 6watt BC22! And does anyone sell BC22 candle bulbs at 60watt equivalent?

Then, I'm puzzled as to why some builds look like a standard light bulb whilst others seem to have a plastic cone surrounding half the bulb, then there is the fact that some have very weird looking filaments - is that relevant?

it's all too confusing and these bulbs are extortionately priced to buy the wrong one

 

[flameport]

Decent lamps will specify the output in lumens.
For 'old' type tungsten filament lamps:
25W candle = 200 lumens
40W candle = 385 lumens
60W candle = 630 lumens.

Those which do not specify the output in lumens should be avoided.

'wierd looking filaments' presumably means things like this: http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p91059
which is just how the individual LED elements are mounted inside.
Those have a larger number of small LEDs arranged in thin strings.
Others have a small number of larger LEDs on a circuit board or other mounting arrangement.
The only difference other than appearance is how the light is distributed - in all directions, or mostly from one end, etc.

 

[DaftPunk]

From my experience 8.5W is a good replacement for a traditional 60W lamp.

A warm white filament type as linked to above gives an indistinguishable output to what you're used to.

 

[333rocky333]

From what i have read about these Led lamps lately, id go for ones with a decent warranty and easy to exchange, in the what seems likely event that they do not live up to yor expectations

 

[Ronob]

Thanks for all your advice. I think the electrical retail industry has done itself no favours at all when it comes to explaining all the new light bulb variants and I know people who are very disappointed with their purchases - come on industry waKe up!

 

[ericmark]

I think we all have had problems one would hope a room with 2500 lumen of light would still need 2500 lumen what ever bulb is used but sadly that's not the case.

A 60W bulb is around 600 lumen but this is even spread. A ses E14 9W LED is around 600 lumen but the light is directed away from the base of the bulb so if facing up to a white ceiling it will work well but pointing down to a dark carpet then not enough light.

The lumen figure is also a problem in that some manufacturers measure at switch on and some after an hour and some measure each LED so if a bulb has 10 LED's at 60 lumen then it's classed as 600 lumen even though when grouped together it will only measure 500 lumen.

In theroy lumen should reflect how much the human eye can see in practice again they got it wrong.

So I will take my living room as an example stated with 2 x 100W tungsten so 3200 lumen. Swapped to 6 x 40W so 2700 lumen note wattage went up but light output reduced. So moved to 60W so 4800 lumen and then tried 11W CFL dropped to 2700 lumen and they looked horrid and rather dim.

So changed to a 5 lamp fitting so 10 bulbs all 8W rated at 3800 lumen the darkest the room had ever been in spite of the lamps were rated with the highest output.

As bulbs failed I had to replace and I had bought two 1.4W 100 lumen bulbs from lidi to test LED. I was surprised how bright so decided to get more but next time Lidi had any for sale they were 3W at 250 lumen so bought all they had 8 bulbs. So living room now has 26.8W at 2200 lumen and is brighter than it has ever been. Oddly although I know two of the ten bulbs are 1.4W I can't work out which without removing the bulb.

At £40 for to re-bulb one really does not want to take a chance and it would seem with LED it is the reverse to tungsten in that 10 bulbs at 3W give out more light that 5 at 6W or 2 at 15W.

I think the simple approach of changing a bulb is flawed we need to increase the number of bulbs in a room to use LED bulbs. I have 2W GU10 bulbs as reading lamps and one odd 3W the 2W give an even light but the 3W gives a concentration of light in the centre.

Since in pods behind the bed they are easy to swivel to point up rather than down and aimed at the white ceiling even just 5W of lighting gives a reasonable light but my son has six 6W lamps in the ceiling in his kitchen and I needed a touch to read the LCD display on his boiler.

So it would seem very important where the light is aimed. Bouncing off white ceiling works well but off a light brown floor useless. So if in your bulb holder the plastic bit faces down with a white ceiling they will work well invert the same lamps with plastic bit up so light aimed down and the carpet will absorb much of the light.

 

[bernardgreen]

I know people who are very disappointed with their purchases - come on industry waKe up!

There is a correlation between level of disappointment and the amount paid for the items that disappoint.

Come on customers waKe up....

 

[Ronob]

Come on customers waKe up....

I disagree strongly on that point Bernard, it is not, or should not, have to be the customer to has to waste time and money discovering how to best implement the change over to these bulbs - it is the job of the industry and price has never been an indicator of quality in any consumer product, and if you think that statement is true then you must have wasted thousands over the years.

I think that as most of this is down to our lap dog Government taking instruction from the EU as to what UK consumers can put in their light sockets, it should be the Government that helps with this.

I don't know how many polar bears are going to be saved by me switching to LED but by the time I've figured it out they may well have become extinct!

 

[Ronob]

ericmark:
I see you have been through what I am suffering and you've just highlighted two things I had not even known about or considered - direction of light and you mention GU10 which is postcode to me! I've also seen reference to GLS what's that all about 'globe-like sphere'? I don't know!

I've also discovered that it seems likely that I will have either change all my light fitting to ES because from what I've seen in local shops ES seems to have the higher wattage availability, or have to go mail order paying postage to add to the price.

I know I can buy BC to ES converters but that will mean many bulbs poking out of the light shade. I am also going to have to buy new wall lights for my living room as they take BC candles currently at 60w at not particularly bright at that, as most shops only seem to sell candle LEDs at around 4w (the highest I've seen - that is not going to be adequate. Add to that the fact that I am told that candle lumens is much lower than standard bulb size/shape lumens - it just gets worse

 

[big-all]

all my bulbs have been led for over 5 years now some bulbs are around 10 years old
my suggestion is to get say 1x12w bulb from toolstation 100w equivalent and a
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p22801 the brightest bulb i have seen for a normal fitting
i would also get 2x10w 2x 7w 2x4w a 3w and a sub 3w bulb

then you go round the house choosing the best level off light for any one area then build up your shopping list accordingly
this company are uk supply 3 day delivery
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251688727410?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

i got the 12w from toolstation before i saw the 12w where available the globefast 12w bulbs actually consume 7.2w by my meter but are equivalent to say an 80w bulb

the tool station bulb does use 12w but is the brightest bulb i have seen and if not 100w equivalent i will be amazed it was actually to bright so gave it to the mother in law
oooo and the 12w globefast are more the size off the old globe type bulbs at around 90mm across compared to the normal 55-65mm for a 6-12w "metal" bodied bulb

 

[bernardgreen]

Come on customers waKe up....

I disagree strongly on that point Bernard, it is not, or should not, have to be the customer to has to waste time and money discovering how to best implement the change over to these bulbs -

One does not have to change to LED lighting. It is strongly recommended but not enforceable.

Would you expect the government or the industry to decide for you which car was the best vehicle for you ?

The point I was making is that "the industry" has a lot of cheap, poorly designed and poorly manufactured equipment from dubious sources as well as correctly designed and properly manufactured items. The price almost always reflects the quality. Don't waste time looking for the cheapest. You will spend more in the long term as cheap short life span items are frequently replaced.

 

[Ltnman]

I have two hall lights which contain four candle filament bulbs each facing down and two lounge lights both of which contain 5 candle filament bulbs that are facing up. The old bulbs are rated at 40w for the hall and 25w for the lounge.

I now have more duff bulbs than workers so I am being forced to do something before all the lights go out.

I was thinking about getting something like this http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p70213 as the LED appears to project into the glass but bearing in mind it is an LED should I go for clear or opal? Also the lounge light bulbs will be illuminating hanging crystal so should I forget LED.

 

[Ronob]

Bernard
My point is simple marketing and PR - if you are introducing a new product to market, then you the manufacturer and/or retailer combined are responsible for selling and promoting the concept. It is never seen to be the job of the consumer to go looking for it and researching its suitability, nothing would ever be sold at that rate!

Given that our government are wanting us to consume less and less energy, and LED is better than halogen, and given that anything electrical has become a big deal with even fuses containing the line "always use a qualified electrician..." then I think I am justified in saying that the industry (manufacturers & retailers) and the government should be more pro-active in educating consumers about this technology - just as the IT industry does, by example.

Yes we could be using tungsten lights or even candles, but if we want lower bills and save a ruddy polar bear, LED seems to be the way to go - if you can fathom the technology!

My experience reveals that not even the retailers can give accurate non-conflicting advice.

 

[bernardgreen]

The motivation behind retailers of LED lamps ( and almost everything else ) is profit. If the buyer can be convinced to buy then profit is made.

And buyers are motivated by saving money so tend to buy based on price.

There is no commercial value in the retailer giving accurate un-biased information as that could lose a sale to another retailer.

There is accurate information to be found but it takes a bit of time and effort.

 

[Ronob]

There is accurate information to be found but it takes a bit of time and effort.

That is exactly where I am and even then advice is conflicting - just look at the replies here, ok maybe not exactly conflicting, but certainly differences of opinion.

I guess I'm going to have to accept there is going to be a 'suck it and see' element to rolling over on to LED and will have to just put my hand deep in my pocket and try!