How to do solder ring joints in close proximity?

[gsf600y]

Hi there,
I'm about to attempt doing some solder ring joints for the first time
I'm replacing the plumbing under my kitchen sink.
I will be having two equal tee joints (cold feeds for dishwasher and washing machine) very close to each other. As close as possible really.

I'm wondering what will happen when I solder the 2nd one on? Will the solder on the first start to melt?
What is the best way to hold the pipework in position whilst I solder joints - will the end of the pipe be too hot to hold by hand?

And also, could anyone recommend a blow torch? Is a TS7000 from Screwfix overkill for a novice DIYer? or would a TS3000 kit from BandQ be better for me?
Oh, by the way, I intend to buy a length of pipe and several joints to practice on first

Thanks for any advice!

 

[Bahco]

Solder both together one after another. Use Laco flux and the Screwfix lamp looks ok.

Read THIS POST and practice and you will get the hang of it.

 

[jmower]

Solder both together one after another. Use Laco flux and the Screwfix lamp looks ok.

Read THIS POST and practice and you will get the hang of it.

As stated above, give yourself a bit of practise, and then solder both together one after another. Try and read up on cooldown periods and stuff unless you plan to let them cooldown naturally.

One thing I will mention if they really are close, make sure there not soldered together after your done. That can cause major problems, But apart from that be quite generous with the solder to make sure its 100% sealed.

Hope it all goes well

 

[Paul Barker]

A good torch makes a world of difference.

I like Turbotorch but can't find a link for you. I buy them regularly from a small independent merchants in my own town.

The Rothenburger or that similar tool on screwfix you found are reasonable. Their fault is too wide aflame but at least they are hot enough to do the job.Just need to protect everything else in the vacinity..

 

[Mike2007]

Great to hear someones taken the time to learn how to solder and use some copper pipe for a change!

 

[Mark Br]

Hi Paul

Is this the one ?

http://www.ryanairconspares.com/tx504-self-igniting-soldering-torch-p-245.html

 

[gsf600y]

Thanks for the advice all Sounds like doing both equal tees at same time is the way to go.

To give a better picture of what I'm doing, I drew the below:

Untitled

• gsf600y
• 8 Aug 2008
• 1

The blue pipework is already there - I will be adding the pipework in red (all the pipes are actually cold )
You can see the two equal tees I'm adding that are closeby - these are for appliance feeds. Also there will be another equal tee for outside tap, and another for kitchen sink tap.
An elbow joint will connect all that onto the mains feed coming up from the floor.

It has just occured to me that I could probably feed both appliances from the same equal tee using some kind of splitter somewhere.

I have read about the importance of making sure all the pipework is bone dry - can I use the blow torch to ensure this, by heating the inside of the pipe a little, before any flux is applied?

Thanks

 

[Paul Barker]

Hi Paul

Is this the one ?

http://www.ryanairconspares.com/tx504-self-igniting-soldering-torch-p-245.html[/QUOTE]

Yes exact one.

much more controlled flame than the Rothenburger.

 

[Paul Barker]

I have read about the importance of making sure all the pipework is bone dry - can I use the blow torch to ensure this, by heating the inside of the pipe a little, before any flux is applied?

The poiint they are makins is you can't solder with a small reservoir of water inside the pipe which would self replenish.

Water iteslf is no problem it boils off and doesn't influence the flux. The problem is that the slightest reservoir from which you would get continual recurrence of water causes cooling below the melting point of solder.

Sometimes we blow down pipes for England then hold them over a bowl under floorbboards to catch the throw back. Repeat many times until we are sure there is no more water able to come back at the joint while we are soldering it.

We have various methods, but with experience we soon know when there is a water problem by the way the soldering goes.

With replenishing water you might just get it to solder with full heat but steam tracks will form a leak.

Water is no problem, subsequent water again and again is our problem.

 

[Whitespirit66]

If soldering tees close together is a problem, sometimes it can be easier to use washing machine tee taps. These are like standard wahing machine taps, but instead of being fitted on a pipe-work branch, they can be fitted in the pipe run. Available at Toolstation.

http://www.toolstation.com/search.html?searchstr=64656

 

[gsf600y]

Yeah, I did consider those tee taps, but I figured 3 solder joints + 1 compression joint (for the valve) would be better than 3 compression joints.

I cocked up some compression joints - thought doing them as tight as I possible could with a spanner was the right way
Since that, decided I'd do some learning and pick the best joint I could reasonably attempt.

 

[Whitespirit66]

There's only 2 compression joints on the tee taps ie. one more than the other types of tap that you want to use. The 3rd joint for the washing machine hose isn't a compression joint.

Quick Compression Joint Crash Course:

After pushing the nut onto the pipe, push the olive onto the end of the pipe so that about 5mm of pipe protrudes from the side of the olive. Now put a LIGHT smear of jointing compound (eg. Boss White) on the olive and 5mm bit of pipe that protrudes. Now push the pipe end and olive into the fitting and do up hand tight. Then tighten nut between half to 3 quarters of a turn with a spanner.

Tips:
1) Never use PTFE tape on compression fittings.
2) If the compression fitting leaks, tighten the nut SLIGHTLY until it stops.

Compression fittings should be easy to get a good seal. I have comp. fittings on my house that have been untouched for 60 years. The trick is NOT to do the nut up TOO tight, this crushes the end of the pipe. Its better to do it slightly too loose, and if it does leak, then tighten a bit more. Whilst compression joints aren't quite as easy as push-fit, they are far easier than soldered. I bet they will also last a lot longer than push-fit!

 

[spacethegas]

Solder both together one after another. Use Laco flux and the Screwfix lamp looks ok.

Read THIS POST and practice and you will get the hang of it.

As stated above, give yourself a bit of practise, and then solder both together one after another. Try and read up on cooldown periods and stuff unless you plan to let them cooldown naturally.

One thing I will mention if they really are close, make sure there not soldered together after your done. That can cause major problems, But apart from that be quite generous with the solder to make sure its 100% sealed.

Hope it all goes well

he is proposing to use solder ring fittings.
they do not require any additional solder.
they look bad enough without solder snot running round joints.

 

[gsf600y]

1) Never use PTFE tape on compression fittings.

That was exactly what I did do
I thought it would help seal the joint a bit better. Lesson learned when almost all the joints started to weep when I turned the water back on

 

[spacethegas]

ptfe is ok on compression-but not on the thread.