How to fill large gaps around window.

[Oshea]

Hi everyone

I recently discovered some blown plaster in a ground floor room either side of a large window. Ive successfully repaired the leak outside which caused the problem.

While removing the plaster Ive been rather alarmed to discover *massive* gaps around the window frames. I can get a hand inside the gaps on both sides. The gap is at least a brick deep and at its widest is 2-3 inches.
The mortar flaunches on the outside of the window are weak and crumbly, so this is almost certainly how the water got in.

Will expanding filler be appropriate to fill the gaps by the window?
Should I use a cement mix?

Is there any particular mortar recipe I need to fix the outside flaunching?

 

[plstering]

expanding filler will bee fine m89 get a spray bottel of water when you have shot your load in lol
let it expand till you you think its were you want it and give it a spray of water that will hold it back till it drys out you can use a hacksaw blade too cut it back
are you skiming up too the frame and finishing it with D bead(upvc) finishing strip
or are you just stoping at the frame
when i worked for regency windows as a plasterers/builder/window fitter thats what we did but its how you want it finished
or foam it up and finish it off with bonding readfy too skim out how you finishing the walls f/s or d/d

 

[roy c]

"plstering" is right about filling the gaps in with ex-foam, and as for rendering the brick work around the windows I would reccommend that you hack of all the old mortar till you get back to where the mortar is firm and solid. You will probably find that you will have to knock off quite a considerable amount!! It looks like old sand and lime mortar between the bricks, and if this is the case then you dont want to be putting a strong mix back over it. If you get a good plasterer in then he should know this and advise you on the mixes that he will use. I would think in the region of from 5-1-1 (sand lime cement) up to maybe 7-1-1 depending on the stength of the mortar between the old bricks. It is amazing how these mixes set so firm yet will still let the walls breathe aswell. Dont be putting a strong mix on (4-1) sand and cement as this would not be suitable for the background..Hope this helps. Any questions you have just ask there is a large wealth of experience and knowledge amongst the lads here.. I may have miss read this post and have given you the gauges for general rendering so these would also work for internal work (Float and set). You could drop the lime if you wanted and use a "plasticiser" instead but keep the sand ratios the same

 

[Oshea]

Hi, thanks for the replies and the advice.
Ive never done anything like this before and so I appreciate your time.
I'll apologise for the basic questions in advance!


First- a quick question what are f/s and d/d?

Second- can I use the strong 4:1 cement mix to fill the outside flaunching once Ive chisled it all out?


Roy- thanks for the detailed answer! My head is spinning a bit! Im now very concerned that the DIY option is beyond me!

I had a builder round this evening and he wanted to fill the gaps with cement, should I insist on the ex-foam? He didnt mention lime at all... to fill the gaps, seal, render and skim he quoted £330.

About an hour later we had another quote of just £100 from a one man band plasterer!


Im confused!

 

[plstering]

hi m8 were in the world are you it mite help too know what you want too do with the walls in the end f/s= float & set is a term used by plasterers for backing coat and finish coat
D&D = dot&dab plaster board too the wall using plaster board addy then tape and joint or skim
what are you looking for a price for just too sort out round the window or too straitghten up the walls and skim

 

[roy c]

Hi, thanks for the replies and the advice.
Ive never done anything like this before and so I appreciate your time.
I'll apologise for the basic questions in advance!


First- a quick question what are f/s and d/d? :###

Second- can I use the strong 4:1 cement mix to fill the outside flaunching once Ive chisled it all out?#####


Roy- thanks for the detailed answer! My head is spinning a bit! Im now very concerned that the DIY option is beyond me!

I had a builder round this evening and he wanted to fill the gaps with cement, should I insist on the ex-foam? He didnt mention lime at all... to fill the gaps, seal, render and skim he quoted £330. ######

About an hour later we had another quote of just £100 from a one man band plasterer!


Im confused!

### f/s Float and set....d/d Dot and dab...

#####Read my post again and see what I said about 4-1 mix...

###### Yes foam will seal between window and wall. As for prices of what work has to be done I can't comment as I dont know the extent of the work that is being under taking..

Find out what the two plasterers are going to do and post it up so we can get an idea of what they are quoting for...

 

[Oshea]

Hi, thanks for the patient explanations.

* The area to be plastered is about a third of the wall- perhaps 3 metres square in total.
*Plus the large gaps around the window.

Time: One day of work spread over two days to allow for drying.


Here are my three quotes.

1)
£330 for sealing the wall, cement render, filling the gap around the window frame with cement and a skim finish.


2)
Ive had another quote: £200 + materials or £240 all in.

This one requested:
4 x bags sand
1 x cement
1 x multi finish
1 x bead rendering
1 x sika cement waterproofer.

Apparently the Sika waterproofer is the best stuff as such is more expensive than say Wickes or B&Q own brand.


3)
The third quote was for £150 all inclusive by a local one man band.

---

Roy,
none of them seem overly concerned by the lime mortar and are happy to use a cement render. Im slightly worried because you advised against this.

When I raised this issue I was reassured that because the existing plasterwork is about an inch deep, a cement render is preferred to bonding.
Am I being flannelled or is that an acceptable answer.

 

[roy c]

I can only say that by the look of your photos that the mortar between the brick-work looks like lime mortar. I maybe wrong but even if I am it would not hurt to put 5 or 6-1 mix with a drop of w/proofer in the scratch and the same mix with a bit of plaz in the float coat..Why does your man want to use Sika waterproofer,I have never used it before but I think it is used with tanking systems(ie. basements and under ground work..) or I may be getting mixed up with another product called Pudlow,,I think. So if he is using this does it mean that your wall is damp ? If so then the damp problem should be sorted out before any plasterwork is carried out.
What does the first quote mean by,"sealing the wall"?
And ask No3 quote what "all inclusive" means..
I did not advise against "cement render" but advised against using a 4-1 mix as I think it would be a bit too strong for your existing brick work.It would also be adviseable not to use any light-weight backing plasters if there is any damp or a chance of damp in the wall. It may be worth getting a local Damp-proof treatment firm in to give you a bit of advice, and see what they say...

 

[roy c]

I have gone to the trouble to reply to your post and there has been a lot of views of the post but no replies so I will take this as a "its not urgent to find out what must be done " so I will not be bothering with it anymore. Ok?...

 

[Oshea]

Thanks for your responses Roy. I have been very appreciative of your time and knowledge. I apologise for keeping you waiting two days. I reply as soon as Im able, I dont work behind a desk 100% of the time so Im not always within reach of a computer. If you choose not to reply, that is of course your prerogative.


Ive passed on all your advice and explanations to the tradesmen who have come round to quote. Ive even printed this thread out to show them. If Ive asked for clarification or what Im saying is unclear, QE then its because Im not a trade professional and dont know the standard terms/ jargon to use.
---

Regarding the possibility of damp: Each plasterer and builder who came round agreed that damp treatment is not necessary. The wall isnt damp, the plaster blew because of a leak from the outside which has now been fixed.
The plaster damage started at a height of 2 metres up the wall, and spread horizontally along the wall at that same height. The lower portion of the wall was unaffected.

---
Regarding your questions about the quotes:

I checked back with the first guy this afternoon and he says 'sealing the wall' means a coating of dilute PVA bonding.

-
Im glad you questioned the Sika waterproofer the second guy requested, it seemed a bizarre request. Maybe he needs it for his next job!
The wall is bone dry, once the gaps round the windows are filled, there wont be any more leaks.
As you say its not necessary, I wont be buying it.

-
I checked with last guy and 'All inclusive ' means inclusive of materials + labour.

-

I did not advise against "cement render" but advised against using a 4-1 mix as I think it would be a bit too strong for your existing brick work.

Understood. I expressed myself poorly.

Thanks again for your time.

 

[jrplastering]

oshea i understand roy was drinking last night and was up for an argument haha dnt take it to heart, it gets to us all sometimes and it has to come out at some point

 

[roughcaster]

I have gone to the trouble to reply to your post and there has been a lot of views of the post but no replies so I will take this as a "its not urgent to find out what must be done " so I will not be bothering with it anymore. Ok?...

Hmm,,, zis is very strange,,,, i don't think zis comment is from za real Roy C. I think zis is an imposter,,, maybe even za infamous Roy B.

 

[roy c]

HI Oshea I am glad you have got sorted out with what you will be getting and its a bit more clearer in your mind what has to be done. As it seems that there is no damp problem then it is just a case of patching back in the area that was taken off, as long as the area that was left on is sound. So from what you have said then I would say that £150 seems like a good quote, and if he is a "local" tradesman then it is not in his interest to do a "bad job". I am glad to have been of help to you and let us know how you get on,,,,

Sorry about the rant

 

[roy c]

I have gone to the trouble to reply to your post and there has been a lot of views of the post but no replies so I will take this as a "its not urgent to find out what must be done " so I will not be bothering with it anymore. Ok?...

Hmm,,, zis is very strange,,,, i don't think zis comment is from za real Roy C. I think zis is an imposter,,, maybe even za infamous Roy B.

Yo ar so roiht me ol freen I am roy cs alter ego an get owt avta 16 pints....

yurs,,,,Rybe...

 

[Oshea]

No hard feelings Roy! We all have out little moments!

Thanks again everyone for your help and advice.

The local guy will be stopping in early this week to do the work.

I'll pop in again.