How to run first fix with steel beam in way?

[Eddm87]

Hi,
I am close to running the first fix plumbing and electrics into new extension, wondered how people would do it. Not the actual clipping, running etc, I mean the path they would take.

See pictures attatched. Run will start at the rendered wall (with the terrible soil pipe) and will need a path all the way to the bifolds. I want to get the ceiling plasterboard up as there is a small stud wall to go up and acoustic insulation is required between the joists. In a normal setting I would run all the services in the ceiling void and run down the walls where needed, here though there is a big steel beam as deep as the joists.

I don't want to drill though it but that means that I will have to run through the first joists, then go under the beam (at the wall) that way they can be hidden behind the dot and dab walls, then go back into the ceiling. Bear in mind this is for the other services also.
Another, easier way would be to run all services in the dot and dab walls, meaning they would all be at the top of the wall.
The other way I can see to do it would be by adding batons to the joists and dropping the ceiling this gives a small void under the beam. I don't really want to do this way though as it will through up a ton of other complications.
I wont be doing the dot and dab, or plastering, I have got someone coming in for that but they are friendly and I am sure would work round what is there.

So that's the story, any ideas or thoughts would be great.

Edd

 

[ericmark]

I would ask the designer for a penetration, they need to tell you, no one else.

 

[sparkwright]

The options, in simple uncomplicated terms, include
a) Consulting someone in the know about drilling the steel. I really do not recommend this, but no doubt it has been done before.
b) Run the cables below the steel on the wall in a zone no greater than 150mm. Gets tedious after 6 or so cables.
c) Fit 10-20mm battens to the underside of the joists - what are the complications you mention? Why is this so difficult?

 

[picasso]

Cut a channel in the floor.

 

[sparkwright]

Sorry I can't come up with anything you don't already know.

 

[Eddm87]

Thanks for the replies.
The designer and I have had run ins before, basically, they are not very helpful at all! I can go down that road if I have to but rather not.
Yeah I’m with you sparkwright, rather not go drilling through structural beams even if it permissible.
Is it legal to run services vertical throughout the whole dot and dab?

Leaning towards the batons now, Thinking about it, wouldn’t be too hard, just worried the pboard won’t hold as well, would be annoying round the soil pipe but that’s getting boxed in anyhow.


On a slightly different note, I plan to have led down lights, can sound proof insulation lay on top of these (the fire rated type)? Or should I stick the insulation to the underside of the ply floor instead leaving the cavity at the bottom of the joists?
Thanks
Edd

 

[ericmark]

Down lights covers a whole range of fittings, I like the idea of GX53 but never tried any, I had a 12" down light in medium bedroom, with a 2D fitting and there was no heat from this unit going up. But LED is a problem with thermal run away, a quartz lamp at 100°C we see as running cold, an LED same temperature likely too hot and will reduce its life. But many down lights today are rather shallow, so this

down light is unlikely to have a problem with insulation, however the advert states "Plug and play driver included." it says 230 volt, but if so why does it say there is a driver? So the lamp may be cool, but where will the driver go?

If you say your fitting screwfix (728FJ) lights then some one may be able to give an answer, but down lights covers too large of a range.

 

[sparkwright]

If you screws the battens to the joists rather than nail them, I can't see any reason to worry about the plasterboard not having a good fixing.

I'm told some led downlights now are suitable to have insulation above them, can't remember which make, so you'll have to research that.

I think very shallow downlights are available, which still give off good light.

No doubt having sound insulation, then making holes in it.

How thick is the insulation, and how tall are the joists?

Keeping the insulation high sounds good - from the downlights point of view anyway.

 

[Eddm87]

Thanks
Eric, I didn’t really narrow it down as they haven’t been chosen as of yet. I see what you mean about the driver issue, it’s Gota go somewhere!?! Mrs is adamant they must be the ‘smaller type’
Was thinking something along these lines But not sure of the heat they will give off, I could surround them like the old school lights with that fire rated cap on top of them, but there must be lights that have super low heat these days.

Have screwed 47mm deep batons in today, looks like it will be okay, ceiling height will now be just over 2.3m but that’s okay.
joists are... 195 off the top of my head. Insulation needs to be 100Mm so there is a lot to play with, just worried the insulation (even if supported) could drop onto the fittings, cables, pipes etc.
Cheers
Edd

 

[sparkwright]

Surprised you used such deep battens.

Some 6 inch nails should keep the insulation up reasonably high, just don't knock them in too far, as you may hit cables or pipes clipped to the other side of the joist.

 

[Eddm87]

I like that idea, Pin the insulation To keep it up.
Yeah went quite deep in the end as it will allow a good pipe run through (also there are nuts on the beams that would otherwise be boxed in!)

thanks.