How to wire for freesat and 6 outlets/TV's from a single dish

[platforminc]

Hello Everyone.

I would like to ask about a setup where I would like to have a single sky dish supply 6 Tv's, there is no plan for immediate sky subscription but the system should allow for it, if that is required. The way I would do this is to run a cable from each Tv point to where the dish is proposed, and then use an LNB that allows up to 8 connections. This is how I have done it in the past, it essentially means that each Tv gets its own direct connection to the Sky dish.

Please note that this is not freeview, with Freeview I know I can run a single cable from the antenna onto an amplifier then run all connections to that amplifier, in this case it will be a sky dish and the proposed Tv signal is freesat and possible sky subscription. I would like to know if there is a better way to run the cables rather than running all 6 to the sky dish, is it possible to use a splitter/amplifier like that of the freeview antenna, and if it is possible what type of splitter would I require?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Lucid]

The Octo LNB is the cheapest way. You're going to hit a few snags though, especially if you want to incorporate Sky Q

- an Octo feeding 8 rooms only allows for a single feed to each room. That's okay for just TVs, but it rules out using any kind of dual input recorder, so you don't have the option to watch one channel whilst recording another

- the signal from an Octo is a legacy type. It is compatible with Freesat TVs and older Sky boxes (Sky+ and Sky+HD) but is not compatible with Sky Q. For this you need a wideband LNB where one cable provides all the horizontally polarised channels and the other does the verticals

- a hybrid LNB provides both wideband (x2) and legacy (x4) outputs. However, 6 outputs is the largest I'm aware of any company making. There isn't a 2+8 option

- sat signals from legacy LNBs can't be split like aerial signals. Sat receivers and Freesat TVs send power up the coax to the LNB. This does two jobs. First, it provides the power to the circuits that convert the microwave frequency signals from the satellite in space into something in the upper Megahertz frequency range so it can be carried by ordinary coax without significant loss.

The second job is that the voltage and a tone changes the bands that each of the LNB outputs is tuned to. There are four states, Low vertical, Low Horizontal, High Vert', High Hor'. The channels you watch are split across these four states. Think of it a bit like switching a car radio from DAB to FM to AM. Each one of the outputs is an LNB, they're all just in one housing. When you switch to a new channel the sat receiver sends the appropriate combination of voltage and tone to direct the LNB to the correct receiving state.

If you split a legacy LNB signal then the first issue is that the LNB is getting double the voltage. That's bad. It can be fixed with a power blocking splitter though so only one power signal gets through. By now you've probably worked out the other issue. If only one sat receiver is powering a particular LNB then that's the one that calls the shots regarding the LV, LH, HV, HH state. The other sat receiver is just along for the ride. Sooner or later, the passenger sat receiver is going to want a signal from an LNB state that the driver isn't tuned to. When that happens, the passenger receiver will show a 'NO SIGNAL' error message. You won't get reception on it while it's asking for a different state.

The answer to all of this is a thing called a multiswitch. There are versions of these that also solve the 'Legacy + SkyQ' combined system issue. The catch is that they're a whole lot more expensive than a simple Octo LNB.

Yep, it's £500. You can shop around of course, but you'll still be looking at north of £400~450 in a lot of cases.

You're probably wondering why so expensive. The answer is that this is a smart switch. You can hang a mix of legacy receivers and a Q receiver off the outputs and the multiswitch will sort out getting the correct signal to each, and it does it all in one box. This one has 12 outputs, so you can have recorders in some rooms. This includes the new generation Freesat 4K boxes where they'll take a wideband signal and allow watching one channel wile three recordings overlap.

The LNB for this system isn't the standard 'Sky' Quad. For a multiswitch you need a Quattro LNB. It's about the same price as a good Quad, but instead of four tunable outputs it has outputs fixed in the four states. This is how it's able to mix and match its outputs to meet the needs of any receiver.

What of the future?
Sky is trying to get away from satellite as a way of delivering signals and switch to broadband instead. This is what Sky Glass and Sky Stream are all about. (Incidentally, Freeview has the same plan, and it's likely that Freesat will head there too if Sky pulls away the funding for the sat transponders that also provide signals for Freesat.)

TV via broadband is an okay idea for those who have a fast enough BB service and no capacity cap. Fibre is rolling out across the country. Quite when it will reach places like the remote hill and valley communities though is a bit of a question mark.

The elephant in the room is TV advertising. If you have Sky Q or you record Freeview or Freesat, then it's possible to fast-forward through the ads. Glass and Stream don't let you do that unless you pay an extra fee on top of the monthly subs. It's the same with a lot of the streaming services. When Freeview and Freesat go IPTV then I'd be amazed if they don't follow suit.

 

[Sureitsoff?]

Just to borrow this thread briefly, can I ask lucid if multi output sky q lnbs are available?

 

[platforminc]

Wow, thank you for the detailed explanation. Really appreciated, at this point the requirement is freesat only, no need for sky for now. Would you say that Octo LNB and just forget about it, I was going to look at freeview however for this to work, the antenna will have to be at a very high point, if wind blew etc and knocked it off the correct position, it would be tricky to fix, however where the sky sat dish would be can be easy to get to if there was issues, just means running a lot of cables there.

 

[Lucid]

Just to borrow this thread briefly, can I ask lucid if multi output sky q lnbs are available?

If I understand your question correctly then I think the answer is probably no, but I haven't looked too far into it to date so the situation may have changed.

I think what you're asking is if there are any multi-output wideband LNBs. Is that right?

As far as Sky Q installations go, you'd never need more than 2 outputs, or that's what Sky thinks. The reason is that a Q installation has only one recorder, which is main box. The rest of the system uses the mini boxes. These are extensions (thin clients, if you will) from the main box.

Sky will only allow one main recorder per address. That would be okay if the minis did 4K, but you can only get that from the main box. That was shortsighted of Sky. I had a number of customers who wanted 4K in several rooms, or just the main lounge and one for their cinema.

AFAIK, at the time Q launched, there wasn't anything else in the UK using wideband LNB signals. That has changed since though.

The Arris 4K Freesat boxes came out, and they can use either wideband or legacy signals. With WB, the boxes swith to 4-tuner mode. With a legacy signal they are limited to 2-tuner mode.

Because someone might have more that one recorder, I can see the need for multiple WB signals.

What's different about WB is that it can be split. So long as the power is blocked from a second recorder, then splitting the two outputs to create four (2x H, 2x V) isn't the problem it would be with a legacy LNB. It would just take a bit more care than passive splitting an aerial signal because the attenuation losses increase with frequency.

At this point I'm sure someone will pop up with a link to a multi output WB LNB That's okay. Satellite stuff is something that I don't do a lot of, particularly since Q arrived and the gear remains on rental rather than ownership transferring to the homeowner like it did with legacy Sky systems. This is all on the periphery of my knowledge range.

 

[Lucid]

Wow, thank you for the detailed explanation. Really appreciated, at this point the requirement is freesat only, no need for sky for now. Would you say that Octo LNB and just forget about it, I was going to look at freeview however for this to work, the antenna will have to be at a very high point, if wind blew etc and knocked it off the correct position, it would be tricky to fix, however where the sky sat dish would be can be easy to get to if there was issues, just means running a lot of cables there.

One or two of your local TV aerial guys could advise better. Local knowledge, and all that.

The Octo is the simple solution, albeit with a lot of cable from the dish. Whether you go Octo or multiswitch, you still need a whole bunch of cables running to the rooms, so the extra cabling is really only from the dish to the point where a switch would live (loft?), but from there it's more or less the same.

 

[plugwash]

Triax also make the TMDS 42 C "dSCR add-on" which takes 4 feeds from a legacy system, and provides four feeds two of which can be used to feed either legacy or dSCR receivers and two of which are Legacy only.

 

[Lucid]

Triax also make the TMDS 42 C "dSCR add-on" which takes 4 feeds from a legacy system, and provides four feeds two of which can be used to feed either legacy or dSCR receivers and two of which are Legacy only.

You're correct. There are a few solutions like this. Different ways to skin a cat.

This one needs the signal from a Quattro LNB, or its pass-through via an older multiswitch installation. If the idea is to add a couple of feeds for a Q box onto an existing system without changing the main switch then I think this is a good solution.

Whether it would work out cheaper for the OP to buy this plus a legacy 8-way switch, I don't know. It wouldn't be as flexible though.

It's probably all academic in the context of what the OP wants.

 

[plugwash]

This one needs the signal from a Quattro LNB, or its pass-through via an older multiswitch installation.

At least the documentation I can find suggests it can work with four regular feeds. The legend on the front panel of the unit also suggests that.

 

[Lucid]

At least the documentation I can find suggests it can work with four regular feeds. The legend on the front panel of the unit also suggests that.

I haven't studied the documentation. The inputs look like those from Quattro to me. HH, HV, and so on. Like I said in an earlier post, satellite stuff is now on the periphery of what I do.

Maybe you could advise @platforminc how he would connect this to feed 8 rooms with legacy signals? If he can get what he wants a cheaper way than a full-blown 8 way or 12-way matrix then I'm sure he'd appreciate it. This would be handy for me to know as well.

 

[plugwash]

I haven't studied the documentation. The inputs look like those from Quattro to me. HH, HV, and so on.

Yup, but they are marked with different voltages, and the high band inputs are marked with a symbol that I presume indicates 22khz tone. The datasheet also says "quad/quattro support".

Like I said in an earlier post, satellite stuff is now on the periphery of what I do.

Maybe you could advise @platforminc how he would connect this to feed 8 rooms with legacy signals? If he can get what he wants a cheaper way than a full-blown 8 way or 12-way matrix then I'm sure he'd appreciate it. This would be handy for me to know as well.

I wouldn't buy it unless I actually wanted a dSCR feed.

 

[Lucid]

Yup, but they are marked with different voltages, and the high band inputs are marked with a symbol that I presume indicates 22khz tone. The datasheet also says "quad/quattro support".

I guess then it directs a quad in a way that emulates a quattro.

I wouldn't buy it unless I actually wanted a dSCR ffeed.

So then, not that useful for @platforminc and his application.

Was there another reason why you brought it up?

 

[plugwash]

I guess then it directs a quad in a way that emulates a quattro.

That is my understanding, yes.

Was there another reason why you brought it up?

I brought it up because afaict it provides a way to add a Q box to an existing legacy system with relatively minimal changes (my understanding is that Q boxes can be fed with either "wideband" or "dscr").

My advice to the OP is to go ahead with the octo LNB, but when running the cables, run them via a location where a multiswitch could be added in-future if-needed.

 

[Lucid]

I brought it up because afaict it provides a way to add a Q box to an existing legacy system with relatively minimal changes

I suppose if @platforminc had an existing multiswitch switch installation then it would be a viable solution. As he's starting from scratch though it's less relevant

my understanding is that Q boxes can be fed with either "wideband" or "dscr".

The Arris 4K boxes can certainly cope with either legacy LNBs or wideband. Unless something has changed with the Q box specs, I thought they only accept wideband signals. The boxes output a 12V power signal - so no 16V to switch to horizontal polarisation - and they also lack the tone output for low-band to high-band switching.

The last I heard, Q absolutely needs a wideband LNB. That makes sense when you think about it. If they could work with the legacy universal LNBs then there's be no pressing need for dscr systems. Just sacrifice the 12-tuner feature and have a Q box work like a +HD box. Folk love lazy solutions.

 

[Rodders53]

As well as $ky Q , at least some $ky HD+ boxes have been able to use the $ky implementation of dSCR in communal systems and a single cable, filtered feed for many years now. Set up via an Engineers menu. Certainly no-one has suggested that Q can/will work with legacy universal LNBs on any of the forums I frequent.

The freesat 4k box can also use dSCR and it might be able to auto detect such (freesat's website is suitably vague).

Quite a lot of Triax (and maybe other makers') headend multiswitch stuff can accept Quad or Quattro inputs. But that 4-way box is insufficient for a 6 tuner outlet install requirement.... and the Octo (plus a Zone2 dish for added gain) is likely the simplest and cheapest way.