How would you install this steel beam?

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Hi

I'm planning a new rear 2 story extension at the back of the house and we want to knock through the rear cavity wall to increase the kitchen size. As you can see from the attached, the width of the kitchen is around 4.5M. The existing joists run parallel with the brick and block cavity wall at the rear (and so parallel to the proposed new RSJs).

The ideal installation would leave the RSJs (one for each leaf) above the ceiling and in an ideal world there would be no piers from the old wall left (shown as pier A and B) in the diagram but if it made it a lot easier we'd probably opt to keep pier B and worse case both piers.

I was thinking one order might be something like:
1/ Prop up outer brick leaf of existing cavity wall with acros and strongbouys externally.
2/ Prop up inner leaf block wall with acros internally (maybe this could be done from outside too since stronbouys should reach?).
3/ Position RSJ outside on the ground between the two sets of acros
4/ Cut a few courses of bricks and blocks out leaving a long"slot" in the wall to push both rsj in
5/ Place padstones
6/ push in RSJs from outside probably using 2 x genie lifts. Then make good, shim and motor etc, wait a few days and remove props.

Would that be the "normal" way to do it? Videos I've seen on youtube etc show the entire wall being demolished and then the rsj being placed in the gap and lifted up. If we did it that way (and had no piers so the RSJs were considerably wider than 4.5M) I can't see how we could position them since wey'd be so much wider than the room.

If I'm fortunate enough to get some good advice, I plan to re-open this thread and show pics. Might even start a general extension project post.

Anyway thanks for reading this far and thanks in advance for any advice!
 

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If I'm fortunate enough to get some good advice, I plan to re-open this thread and show pics.
The pics would be much more interesting if you got bad advice.

You can't prop a solid or cavity wall with strong boys from one side only.

How are you going to prop the inner leaf if the beam is at floor level? Ans: needles on top of the floor normally.

Padstones before or after it depends on preference. Before is better. Several days before so its gone off.
 
Thanks woody. So needles all the way through the cavity wall to prop both leaves at 1st floor level. Internally either prop the needles directly or have them lie on the joists and then prop the joists.

Do you think I could leave most of the wall (below the rsj) in place so that I don't need to open the house up before the new external walls get built? (I'm assuming if putting in the rsj from outside, then would be best to do that before the new walls are built up?)
 
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Hmmm manufacturer seems to suggest you can use them on cavity walls. Maybe depends on the area of wall their holding up and whether or not there is a floor?

https://www.strongboy.co.uk/content/6-instructions

Also this guy seems to use them:

There does seem to be some diagreement though and would prefer to err on the side of caution. So doing it the way you suggest, could I use SBs on the outer leaf and the traditional needles on inner above 1st floor level?
Also do you think I'd pretty much have to remove the wall below to stand a chance of having room to get the RSJ in?
 
You can use strongboys on cavity walls but not one strongboy on one side holding up both leaves at the same time.
 
I'm just a casual observer, no expert at all - but the guy in this video talks about the flange not being wide enough to hang the joists off so they bolted timber to the web and the joists off that with hangers. I thought that was the only way to do and hanging off the flange is a no-no. Plus, are the joist hangers actually supposed to hang down beyond the height of the timber?

Nozzle
 
I thought that was the only way to do and hanging off the flange is a no-no.

It depends on the width of the flange; if it's a 203 x 102, for example, there will only be about 35mm bearing, which is not ideal.
 
It depends on the width of the flange; if it's a 203 x 102, for example, there will only be about 35mm bearing, which is not ideal.

My thinking is that it is bad for the beam not bad for the joist which might have only a small perch. (No matter the flange width)

Nozzle
 

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