HSA6400

[ckey]

After recently being the target for an attempted burgulary I have decided to get an alarm!!

Having first got quotations for an alarm install ranging between £550 and £950 I decided to looking into self install. I was warned by alarm companies that my insurance would not recognise a DIY fitted alarm so I checked my my company - Aviva( Norwich Union)...They confirmed that "as long as the alarm has been tested in last 12mnths and confirmed working you are entitled to a 5% premium discount".....OK thats good enough for me.

Next we looked at the ESP Infinite / Visonic / Response and Yale.
After reseaching on here and other security forums we made the descion
based on facts below....

ESP - poor quality/ false alarms and poor battery life

Visonic - rated most highly but from a one off install far too complicated for a DIY'er.

Response - it was very apparent these are not sufficent..no need to mention the solar siren that does not work within a year.

Yale - The UK no1 alarm..initially I was deterred due to reports of Jamming signals BUT I spoke to Yale. They confirm this not to be true at all and reffered me to their main UK distributor MAP Security who also confirmed this to be the case. They have sold nearly 5000 units and have never had a singal case of Jamming.

We purchased a Pet Friendly HSA6400 system...On watch the DVD and reading instructions I was able to pretty much install complete system within 5 hrs. The control panel is excellent and very informative of all actions/ issues.

However 2 days later we did get a false alarm during the daytime...After dashing home( I found the remote dial in to be quite tricky) the control panel confirmed it was the Hallway PIR - the only way it could have been triggered was by our cat!!!!!! I got on the phone to MAP Security who duly confirmed there is an issue with cats/ staircases and I was told to reposition PIR....

Anyway 4wks on and we've not had a repeat of the problem.

I'm going to add keyfobs for the system..Overall we are very happy but the remote dial in feature that really attracted me to this system is a little hap hazard - It maybe my lack of understanding

Can I recommend?? YES most definately I would !!!!

Ive written this unbiased report as I found this and many other forums very useful in helping me to make a choice! hopefully this will assist others in the same way.

 

[bernardgreen]

They confirmed that "as long as the alarm has been tested in last 12mnths and confirmed working you are entitled to a 5% premium discount".....OK thats good enough for me.

A discounted premium is not the same as the assurance that they will pay out if a claim is made. Check the small print carefully and verify any excesses.

Yale - The UK no1 alarm..initially I was deterred due to reports of Jamming signals BUT I spoke to Yale. They confirm this not to be true at all and reffered me to their main UK distributor MAP Security who also confirmed this to be the case.

After 12 years working in the design of safety critical communication systems that used radio I can assure you that any system that uses radio can be be jammed. Security comes from the system being able to detect any jamming and changing its operating mode and / or radio frequency to move away from the jamming signal.


Yale equipment cannot change its radio freqency so if there is a jamming signal the siren will not be able to "hear" its sensors. The alarm system is rendered in-operative. The sensors cannot change their transmit freqency but even if they could they are unable to know if the sytem is being jammed as without a receiver they cannot "hear" the jamming signal.

Yale designers accepted that jamming was possible as they designed in a "anti jamming" fail safe system. If the siren considers the radio channel is being jammed and it cannot hear its sensors then it will sound the alarm.

 

[JohnD]

rather than keyfobs, you might consider one or more keypads. The cost is similar.

these can be fitted within reasonable reach of the front door, so that you can put in your code during the 6400 entry countdown, or before you leave the house during the exit delay. If you have a keypad upstairs, you can also keep it by the bed or at the top of the stairs so that you can set and unset "home" on going to bed and getting up.

Unlike the keyfob, a ne'erdowell can't just press a disarm button, he has to key in the correct PIN that you have set. The keypad housing is screwed to a wall or other surface but you can unclip the keypad if you need to carry it with you.

I prefer to put the control panel out of sight and well away from a probable point of entry, to prevent anyone attacking it and possibly pulling out the telecoms cord before it has phoned out. Have a PIR covering the approach to the panel. You can hide it inside a cupboard or wardrobe if you want. I like to hear the control panel chime when the front door is opened, even when the alarm is not armed.

You can also learn-in an infinite number of Yale sirens to the control panel, so you can have one at the back of the house, or out of reach above the stairwell or hidden on top of a kitchen cupboard. I understand the noise is very upsetting for an intruder. Once the siren has started, attacking the control panel won't stop it.

BTW verify that your policy does not say cover is dependent on security devices being activated whenever the house is unoccupied. If it does, you might think the 5% discount is not enough to compensate for the risk that one day someone will forget to set it, or not bother because they are "only popping out for a bit"

A friend who has cats bought some extra door sensors and used them on internal doors to cut down on PIRs. You can also get smoke sensors and even flood detectors and a panic button.

The big advantage of the Yale is that it is a quick and cheap DIY fit, and you can alter or extend it yourself with no fitting or maintenance costs. However you can expect a lot of flak on here from pro's who don't like DIY systems.

It would be interesting to know the number of burglaries that take place in the UK each year where the miscreant has electronically jammed a Yale wireless alarm system in a house. I have a hunch the number will be in the region of 0.

 

[ckey]

Thanks for comments guys....

I have spoke to Aviva again and they confirm 100% that as long as alarm is tested yearly and confirmed working they will issue a 5% discount - Aviva also stated I would noty get anymore discount if we had a NAKOSS or NSI approved installer whatever that is( approval i'm guessing) . You only need alarm approvals when you have high/ valuble items such as jewelery ect. Aviva stated that normal items ie TV's computers ect do NOT fall into this high risk category.

In terms of paying out for a claim I would trust Aviva more than any other insurance co !

As for jamming, i guess any wireless system could be blocked BUT for 99% of domestic dwellings your typical scally criminal would not have a clue about this technology - they would be more likely to use brick and screwdriver. Yale did confirm only weeks ago this type of issue has NEVER been reported.

Regarding keyfobs/ keypads I ordered one of each from MAP this morning...will let you know how I get on....

As for any negative comments towards the Yale alarm every system has its flaws I'm sure and everybody has and is entitled to their views. I really do not wish to attract any trolls or silly comments.

Thanks to guys for good solid advice.
CK

 

[Alarm]

It would be interesting to know the number of burglaries that take place in the UK each year where the miscreant has electronically jammed a Yale wireless alarm system in a house. I have a hunch the number will be in the region of 0.

With the older versions a lot actually. And it was not jamming as such, it was scanning. Using a standard remote as the tool.

Some of your advoce si not too bad. The assumptions are just that.
There is a reason why DIY is not trusted with "pros". One is system design, two is the lack of maintainence and correct testing.

There are far more reasons, but TBH the two mentioned are pretty important.

 

[chunkylover53]

I have spoke to Aviva again and they confirm 100% that as long as alarm is tested yearly and confirmed working they will issue a 5% discount
CK

Surely when they say it requires annual testing then it should be done by a pro therefore somebody registered with the relevant boards etc?

 

[bernardgreen]

With the older versions a lot actually. And it was not jamming as such, it was scanning. Using a standard remote as the tool.

Cloning the key fobs for car door locks opened many car doors for thieves until the industry introduced rolling codes to defeat the cloners.

The fob sends a different code each time it is used but in a sequence that the car lock also knows. The method allows for the fob and lock to be out of step by several steps along the sequence for when the fob is pressed away from the car.

If that is used in a system to dis-arm by key fob then the system is less likely to be dis-armed by an un-authorised key fob.

But without the use of a PIN or cancel code the loss of a key fob to a mugger or pickpocket has effectively made the alarm system in-effective if the criminal knows which street or area you live in. He or she simply walks along the street pressing the fob until they see an alarm box react. They now have your address and the means to enter without setting off the alarm.

 

[JohnD]

the Yale 6400 cannot be disarmed using the keyfob from outside the house, until you have opened the Entry door and started the Entry countdown. This is to prevent a villain doing what you describe. The keyfob will also not stop an Alarm once it has been activated, you have to key in the PIN.

There is a bit more to it than that, on the older 3800 control panel there was an option to set it to accept the keyfob if you wanted it to, and I thought (but may mistaken) that this option was still hidden away inside one of the menus on a 6400 (I have used both)

BTW the keyfob and other devices don't just send a signal; they also send their identifying serial no, so each device is "learned in" to the panel during installation. So some random keyfob or other device off the shelf will be ignored by the panel (or by the siren if you have no panel).

 

[Alarm]

I get accused of this, so about time I got my own back

Read what I said

With the older versions a lot actually. And it was not jamming as such, it was scanning. Using a standard remote as the tool.

Thanks for the information of rolling codes and Entry before unset. Would never have guessed

 

[9651]

Who's going to test this alarm annually?

 

[Alarm]

Well if it is correct the end user.
Cannot see how the insurers would take his word that it worked though. Wait until a claim is made!!!!

 

[9651]

flol! "Yeah mate, its sound"

When we get involved with stuff like this, insurance asked it to be serviced by an approved firm, and will ask for a copy of the report? We walk away from most as they dont conform to even basic standards. (like yale )

 

[Alarm]

Can see it now;

Service report, Does not meet BS let alone EN or PD.
Detectors sited incorrectly and at wrong heights. Panel is unprotected and fitted by a plug top with 13 amp fuse.(although certain G2 can be on a plug now, but not best practise) SAB is 4 ft from ground. Unsetting is allowed from outside before entry.

PMV, well it made a noise.

 

[bernardgreen]

until you have opened the Entry door and started the Entry countdown.

The intruder forces the entry door to start the count down and then uses his cloned key fob.

BTW the keyfob and other devices don't just send a signal; they also send their identifying serial no, so each device is "learned in" to the panel during installation.

And a device set up to send the same identity signal will be accepted by the panel as the correct keyfob. Cloning of key fobs for cars was very common and the equipment to create clone is not difficult.

So some random keyfob or other device off the shelf will be ignored by the panel (or by the siren if you have no panel).

A device operating as a cloned key fob is not a random one.

 

[JohnD]

He or she simply walks along the street pressing the fob until they see an alarm box react. They now have your address and the means to enter without setting off the alarm.

not with the 6400