I am going to do my own loft conversion - Building Notice vs Full plans?

[Jammydodger77]

Hi guys

I have searched previously but can't seem to find any threads that relate to someone like myself. I've been involved in renovation/building works for a lot of my life and have done a couple of loft conversions previously with my dad several years ago. Both were done without building regs approval even though we did things by the book. One was approved a few years later with a regularisation certificate, can't remember why we needed to do that, but it involved BCO coming over and looking at the insulation, ventilation, joists etc.

I am now wanting to do another, but in my own house. I have had a structural engineer draw up the plan/calculations for the new floors and strengthening of the roof structure. I am aware of the requirements of the staircase, wired/interlinked smoke alarms, fire doors, insulation, fireboarding etc. A sparky will do the electrics etc. I've looked for draft loft conversion plans where it details all the requirements with the actual relevant legislation etc but can't find anything.

If I go the building notice route, how often do they come and inspect, and do they give any guidance at all if I have any questions?

I like the idea of Full Plan, but that does involve the extra cost of that, even though I know what I'm doing and I'm flexible as to the build. When we have had plans drawn in the past, we have had to deviate slightly from them anyway because of structural difficulties etc. I sometimes find in building work that your plans have to evolve as you uncover difficulties when stripping back etc.

Everything I read says that if you do Building Notice only, then if your builder does something wrong then it needs fixing and who pays etc etc. Well I am the builder, everything will be researched 100% beforehand, and it's a simple build anyway. My concern is that some councils have different ideas to others, and different interpretations of building regulations too, so I don't want to end up in a situation where I'm arguing with them over something minor than comes down to interpretation.

After all that waffling, I think I'm leaning towards Full Plans and having them drawn up, I just don't like the inflexibility and unnecessary cost of doing that!

If anyone has thoughts on the matter that would be much appreciated! Thank you

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Depends how knowledgeable you really are, why not do the drawings yourself, that way you'll also get a good handle on how you would approach things. Generally you can deviate from whatever's been approved under the plan approval within reason, provided it complies with the regs. There's not that many grey areas with respect to Building Regs, loft conversion regs are pretty clear, there can be some iffy areas with regards to stairs if it's a struggle getting them to comply fully but not much else. But don't expect much assistance from your BCO, that's not their job, though some are more helpful than others, they'll always prefer a self builder goes the full plans route.

 

[Jammydodger77]

Thanks for that, my issue with that is that I can't draw for toffee, I have a book which I draw my plans in, but it's all wonky with spider writing etc, it would look awful submitting that.

Agreed about the stairs. I'm getting a guy in to discuss the stairs and build them to regs, I'll frame it out to his requirements. Luckily it's a fairly simple one as we have plenty of head height and landing space, phew! I think one concern was the insulation, I can't see anything firm on insulation between the rafters. Some websites state 270mm when of course that means loft floor insulation, others state 175mm PIR which seems ridiculous alongside a 50mm air gap, that would drastically reduce head height of an existing buildings' loft. I read elsewhere that discretion is allowed when retrofitting, so this is where I wanted BCO input and not to fall foul.

Thanks again for your input,I think if the BCO generally aren't too helpful I'll go with getting some plans drawn!

 

[noseall]

Thanks again for your input,I think if the BCO generally aren't too helpful I'll go with getting some plans drawn!

BC don't like babysitting DIY type jobs at the best of times, nor are they paid to do that. Lofties are VERY B'Regs rich. I did one on a Building Notice for a friend. The back and forth and the head scratching time, equated to more than the cost of full plans - but that was his choice. Plus the BCO was an old sweat that I have been acquainted with for decades.

If I was doing a lofty at home, I deffo get it designed, 100%. I had my two storey extension drawn up by an architect.

 

[robinbanks]

I too would advise going the full plans route unless I had recent relevant experience. Your experience isn't so recent and you're complaining/amazed at stuff that simply is modern regs so they may be quite a bit of research to do to come up to speed. Insulation wise, you probably wouldn't put 270mm of wool in a ceiling; rigid board makes more sense and 50mm of PIR between rafters, 100mm below would likely achieve your target U, but you do need to do the calcs to eg account for the effect of the your particular rafters themselves being more heat conductive than the PIR

You don't need an architect to draw up plans; an architectural technician would be just as capable and should cost less. If you want to draw your own, there are various free drawing programs available. I particularly like SketchUp, which has (IMHO) quite a shallow learning curve and lots of YouTube tutorials, it lets you draw in 3D with fractions of millimetres accuracy and then throw pre made models of sofas, beds into a space to see how it works. This can be a great visualisation to help convince or assure another person how a particular idea will work out in the end.
Once drawn it's easy to take a slice through a 3D model to churn out a scaled 2D plan to show things like roof buildup. It's fun too, but whether it will save you any money when you consider the time value you put in? Probably not. If however your rate your time at zero for things like that, have at it..

 

[Nozzle]

2nd vote for lining yourself up with an architectural technician IF you're certain all you need is the physical drawings. Are you certain; what about calcs?

Nozzle

 

[noseall]

IF you're certain all you need is the physical drawings. Are you certain; what about calcs?

He's sorted that (opening post).

 

[Jammydodger77]

Thanks a lot guys, I think I'll get full plans drawn, that way they can put all the detail in regarding regs, no doubt they have ready made templates with all the blurb in, rather than me spending hours doing it.

Appreciate your help! I guess I'm saving a chunk of money doing this work myself, so another few hundred on plans is an annoyance but doesn't break the budget!

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

If you follow my post in this thread it will give you an idea of how the process should run, obviously it won't all apply to you, presumably you know your headroom etc and the prices will be out of date but should give the gist as to what to expect: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/questions-about-a-loft-conversion.418758/#post-3250539

 

[Jammydodger77]

If you follow my post in this thread it will give you an idea of how the process should run, obviously it won't all apply to you, presumably you know your headroom etc and the prices will be out of date but should give the gist as to what to expect: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/questions-about-a-loft-conversion.418758/#post-3250539

Thanks for that, will take a look!

 

[Notch7]

the problem with a building notice is you wont find out your construction is wrong until after its been built and the building inspector has visited

it only takes one thing that requires remedial work to cost more than having the plans drawn up and submitted

 

[Jammydodger77]

the problem with a building notice is you wont find out your construction is wrong until after its been built and the building inspector has visited

it only takes one thing that requires remedial work to cost more than having the plans drawn up and submitted

Thank you, yes this is what I was worried about. I was hoping that there would be several visits/discussions. I'll get proper plans drawn so that scenario is much less likely

 

[stevie888]

I design lofts and I still put the drawings in for approval before we did my daughters a few years back

Many authorities charge larger fees fro Notice jobs because they have more work to do and they make no secret of far prefering drawings for approval.

 

[Jammydodger77]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I've had a quote from a well reviewed local architect. He says approx £1000+ vat for the following:

Survey existing house
Draw up existing plans
Draw up proposals
Detail up the drawings to building reg standards
Construction notes
Address any building control comments (if any)

Does that sound reasonable? It's the first quote I've had back after I've given him a detailed description. He is booked up for 3 weeks so I pestered him for a rough quote.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[Notch7]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I've had a quote from a well reviewed local architect. He says approx £1000+ vat for the following:

Survey existing house
Draw up existing plans
Draw up proposals
Detail up the drawings to building reg standards
Construction notes
Address any building control comments (if any)

Does that sound reasonable? It's the first quote I've had back after I've given him a detailed description. He is booked up for 3 weeks so I pestered him for a rough quote.

Thanks again everyone!

I would say thats about the right sort of price as it included a site survey

theres a fair few hours in drawing it up, annotating the dwg with all the b/regs stuff etc

will he submit it in that price too (not including the fee)