I did something dumb - what will the outcome be?

[thinkdifferent]

Hi there,

RTFM would be the appropriate response if I hadn't already done this...

So, in a fit of enthusiasm I plumbed the whole of my new extension last weekend. It's a single room with 2 radiators, one at each end. These are plumbed with 15mm copper pipe, and I also laid an extra 2 pipes from the kitchen through to the far wall in case we ever want a basin, washing machine etc.

Was very pleased with the result until I actually read a proper plumbing guide rather than the rudimentary instructions I worked from.

I used solder ring connectors, and no flux at all throughout.

My instructions stated that the joint was complete when the solder boiled and started to appear. So I basically blowtorched each joint for ages (15mins!) until a bit of solder came out. On a couple of joints, at the solder ring a weak point developed and solder burned through the copper! I made sure any hole was patched with solder. All joints feel secure.

I did 25 separate connectors, all very consistently as above so I figure the behaviour will likely be the same throughout.

So the question I have is, what do the experienced plumbers on here think will happen if I pressurise the system?

This weekend I'm working on it again, and am wondering whether my time is best spent making a temporary test connection to the mains cold water to test pressure, or just going around every connection with some fulx and run solder around each connection as if it were a plain copper connector.

Anyone got any experience to bring to my self-induced uncertainty?

Cheers,
Alex

 

[tonybhoy]

You'll have to rip it all out and start again mate. You've lost all of the fittings so you'll have to cut them off the pipe and try to salvage as much of the pipe that you can but if you've not spent much I would just scrap the lot and buy again.

 

[mogget]

So the question I have is, what do the experienced plumbers on here think will happen if I pressurise the system?

It's almost certain that these joints will not hold properly after a few years, even if they seem to be ok to begin with.

I know you won't want to hear this, but the only way to rectify this is to start again. You can re-use any copper that hasn't been subjected to the 'fire and brimstone'.

Also, make sure you don't bury bare copper in concrete - form a duct or wrap it in denso tape.

 

[kevplumb]

why didn't you ask before you dropped yourself in the brown smelly stuff

your supposed to come here first


pull the lot out and start again

 

[thinkdifferent]

Yes I should have gone further than a B&Q ex-plumber for advice...!

So the consensus seems to be firmly that even if it does hold water it may leak in future and needs to be redone. I'll bite the bullet, redo every joint and chalk it up to experience!

Before I rip it all out, which will involve a lot of wastage as pipes were fitted with quite tight tolerances...

Each individual joint is securely fitted, and I had done an impeccable job of deburring and cleaning pipe ends...

Can I not simply clean every joint to bare metal, apply flux this time and add solder to the ring just as if it was a standard copper connector, this time making sure the solder forms a nice ring around the pipe?

 

[kevplumb]

you will have to break every joint then clean the outside of the pipe

and the inside of the fittings then flux the pipe

i would scrap the fittings if you have "cooked " them

go to a plumbers merchant and ask for endex fittings

lot cheaper

 

[DaleRCL]

How much copper did you use? You can get 30 metres of 15mm copper for less than £40 if you stay away from places like B&Q. Go to plumbase or plumb center. I'd rather buy new copper than sit there labouriously cleaning up the old stuff. Now that you've already done it once and know your routes it shouldn't take half as long, especially as you'll now be using flux and each joint shouldn't take longer than a minute.

As previously stated, dont forget to wrap it in denso, get some latex gloves and a cheap stanley knife for this task. Good luck

 

[zk]

Denzo tape used to be ok however its not to be used with copper as it can make in holes in it, according to c**gi.

 

[thinkdifferent]

I used just under 30 metres, it was just over £30 at B&Q - they seem to have sorted out their pricing for 'trade' quantities...

The whole design philosophy of my extension is to use recycled materials where possible, and it will have a green roof...
http://uk.geocities.com/alexgibsondotnet/Alex_Gibson_Green_Roof.JPG

If a bit of scrubbing with wire wool avoids need for ditching 30 metres of plumbing I'm happy to do it, that part didn't take so long... It's a choice, I will have added a decent size room for under £4000, doing it 100% DIY, at a cost of my time and effort. It goes against the grain to ditch and buy new - but if it all starts leaking and my floor rots away that's hardly sustainable...!

 

[mogget]

Denzo tape used to be ok however its not to be used with copper as it can make in holes in it, according to c**gi.

OK, I must be behind the times what's the method approved by the royal canines?

 

[mattylad]

It doesnt matter now, the doggy woggies are old hat,

 

[doitall]

Denzo tape used to be ok however its not to be used with copper as it can make in holes in it, according to c**gi.

Dogs poopoo comes to mind

 

[kevplumb]

Denzo tape used to be ok however its not to be used with copper as it can make in holes in it, according to c**gi.

1/2 the country should either be flooded or in danger of exploding then


and you deffo can't use that DIA

 

[fitz1]

diy plumbers should use fittings designed to be easy without much instruction. i:e speedfit (pushfit fittings)

 

[mogget]

I agree for the occasional job pushfit has its advantages. Making a good soldered joint isn't difficult with knowledge and practice though.

Making a neat soldered joint is another matter

If these pipes are going into concrete, plastic may be a good idea!