I never thought I'd get into DIY until...

[GabrielKnight]

I saw how much my London plumber wanted to charge for removing a radiator so I can paint behind it.

I've read some guides and think I can do it, but need to ask 3 embarrissingly newbie questions first:

1) I looked for a stop cock to the whole house and found something similar to this under the sink:
http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/329-0000?eid=0003-000092

I CANNOT turn the tap despite using loads of penetrant and a rubber hammer, but you see the hexaganal nut thing half way down the picture? - Does that need to be loosened with a spanner first to help turn the tap, or will that just cause the whole thing to fall apart and flood my house?!

2) To remove the radiator, I apparently need to buy a couple of 'adjustable spanners'. Can anyone explain the difference between a) an adjustable spanner, b) pliers, c) wrench, and what is the ideal use of each type of tool.

3) The guides I've read say that I shouldn't trust simply removing a thermostatic valve / controller on the bottom lhs of the radiator because even on the frost setting the valve might not be entirely closed. It suggests buying a 'commonly available dust cap' while doing the work. However, Googling 'radiator dust cap' comes up with nothing useful. What's this all about?! Do I need one to get one and where can I find one in the UK?

Many thanks in advance and sorry for the simplicity of the questions. I hope I'm more competant than I sound.

 

[EliteHeat]

What guides did you read? and how much was the geezer quoting?

Did you know that unless you have solid floors, it is almost always possible to swing the rad down to be able to decorate without having to remove the radiator at all.

Ta da!

 

[GabrielKnight]

Hi!

Just a bunch of online guides. I read them all to get the best of each. I tried removing the secure brackets, but there is no way I can tip it enough. Its an original Victorian radiator with a wide footprint.

There is also another Victorian radiator in the house that I will replace with a new one if I can cut my teeth on this first project.

I'm not as useless as my questions sound. I just have gaps in my knowledge about those particular subjects. Anyone able to help?!

 

[breezer]

2) wrench is an american word for spanner (also sometimes called stilsons)

adjustable spanner is a spanner you can adjust the size of its "Jaws"

Pliers are, well pliers, not a lot of use for removing a rad, more often used to hold tthings

have a look here

sorry but as each tool is "specialised" (acording to screfix) type in the name of each tool and you will see them

3) dust cap is probaly aka another name (i am not a plumber or heating engineer) but you can get them from a plumbers merchant

 

[EliteHeat]

Forget the stop tap.

Here is an adjustable spanner http://www.toolspot.co.uk/products/Adjustables/12in Standard Adjustable Spanner_f.jpg

To do what you're after:-

1) Turn off both radiator valves
2) Undo one of the valve unions until water starts dribbling out
3) Catch the water in a strong plastic bag
4) When the water stops coming out, open the bleed screw and it will start again
5) When it stops, cover the whole area with old towels & tighten the bleed screw
6) Lift the radiator of it's brackets - heergh herrgh - that's got it
7) Quickly invert the radiator so it's upside down
8 Do your decorating and put it back in the reverse order

If you have a TRV it will automatically open at about 5 degrees, so don't leave it overnight without disabling its frost protection. It is possible to do this by removing the head and putting a small coin on the pin and then replacing the head.

Good luck with your decorating. But to be brutally frank, if you don't know what an adjustable spanner is, you might question the sense of attempting this.

 

[chrishutt]

At least you're asking the right sort of questions, which is a good omen.

Firstly the stop tap. They are often too tight to turn (designed by a man?) so you will need a tool to turn it. An adjustable spanner should do the job - just grab the handle and twist it clockwise to shut (and you're right than loosening the gland nut might make it easier, but be sure to tighten up again or it may leak water).

Adjustable spanners are what you need, but make sure the jaws will open enough to fit around the nuts you need to undo. Water pump pliers are also useful since they can grip irregular shapes and larger nuts.

As for the TRV, it might be OK if it has a definite shut position, but otherwise you will need something like this

probably 1/2" size, together with a fibre washer to seal. Screw this onto the outlet of the TRV.

 

[GabrielKnight]

<But to be brutally frank, if you don't know what an adjustable spanner is, you might question the sense of attempting this.>

I know what you're saying.
I DO know what an adjustable spanner is. It's a spanner that can be adjusted, usually by a spin wheel, to fit a nut.

I did understand that a wrench was an American spanner, but loads of UK sites seem to have a 'wrench' section. For example plumbworld has a section on 'wrenches AND spanners' which made me think the words could not be totally interchangable. The 'wrenches' on this site don't look like everyday spanners and I wondered what the effective definition is when used in the UK:

http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/618-0000

Would I be right in thinking that pliers are used more in electrical stuff than plumbing? There is no shape, like a hex angle. Just thick, flat blades / claws to grasp things with and a thin cutting thingy for cables. Correct?

I guess the pros just use whatever is available. I'm just the sort of person to get caught up in definitions, sorry

 

[GabrielKnight]

<As for the TRV, it might be OK if it has a definite shut position>

I don't think it does. The lowest setting is like a snowflake, meaning front setting.


<but otherwise you will need something like this...>

Yes, but what is it called?! What can I type into Google to order one? I have no wheels so everything is bought online.

 

[EliteHeat]

There are loads of different sorts of pliers. One sort that would actually work for you are waterpump pliers. But, this is really, really using the wrong sort of tool for the job.

Oh, I didn't mean to offend you, but when I read

Can anyone explain the difference between a) an adjustable spanner, b) pliers, c) wrench, and what is the ideal use of each type of tool.

I understood that as meaning "I don't know what any of these are"

 

[breezer]

Would I be right in thinking that pliers are used more in electrical stuff than plumbing? There is no shape, like a hex angle. Just thick, flat blades / claws to grasp things with and a thin cutting thingy for cables. Correct?

basicaly yes

I guess the pros just use whatever is available. I'm just the sort of person to get caught up in definitions, sorry

no, each tool has a job / function (some are "multi functional") = right tool for right job

never use a tool that "will do" often it will slip off and you use colourful language as a result

 

[Softus]

We need to know more about your system before advising you.

Do you have a combi boiler?

If not, and if you have an open-vented system, with a feed and expansion cistern in the loft (or somewhere higher up that the stored hot water), then it's possible to drain the system by placing a bung in the F&E outlet or by tying up the float valve arm with string.

 

[chrishutt]

Yes, but what is it called?!

It's called a 1/2" brass cap. Try BES for plumbing stuff - also Toolstation and Screwfix.

 

[GabrielKnight]

1.

<Oh, I didn't mean to offend you, but when I read
Can anyone explain the difference between a) an adjustable spanner, b) pliers, c) wrench, and what is the ideal use of each type of tool.
I understood that as meaning "I don't know what any of these are">

No offense taken at all. I'm a newbie, but learning fast.

I know what they all are, what they look like, (I even have some in my toolbox) but have never been taught (where were you dad?) about the primary differences between each, what circumstances you would choose one over another, and the exact definitions of each tool type. I would love to be able to look at an appliance and say 'that needs a...' and for it to be the right tool, not just one I can get away with.


2.

<It's called a 1/2" brass cap. Try BES for plumbing stuff - also Toolstation and Screwfix.>

Thanks man, you've just saved me an hour at least. Thanks to everyone btw.


3.

<We need to know more about your system before advising you.>

I have a Patterson Combi 80 feeing two bedrooms, a kitchen, a bathroom and a loft conversion upstairs. Its a closed system, but every guide I've read recommends ' If you have a closed system, consult a plumber'. Does this mean a radiator can't be temporaily removed or permanently replaced without f***ing up the system? Can a radiator on my system not be shut off on both sides (bottom left and right) without some sort of pressure problems or something?

 

[chrishutt]

Gabriel, there's loads of guidance in the sticky FAQ topic which might answer many of your questions and generally give you some background knowledge. I think my Idiot's guide might be particularly useful .

Seriously, we're all more than happy to help you along the way if you do your homework and continue asking the right questions. Other female novices (trying not to be sexist here but it is that much more difficult, isn't it?) have successfully tackled similar tasks with our help. One springs to mind - I'll try to find the thread and post a link.

 

[GabrielKnight]

Okay, I'll have another look, but I have been reading up on this stuff since 6 this morning (>13 hours) and while I think I've got a general, albeit basic understanding, I've not found any direct answers to the specific questions I've posted...

I didn't post them out of boredom. I really couldn't find the answers through a normal search.