Ideal Boiler and Copper Tank

[Georgie73]

Hello

We have just bought a house and are doing the renovation works over the next 10 months so that it's ready for when we retire.

The house is 1930's and the gas central heating has big old pipes. The downstairs has concrete floors and pipes are mounted a couple of inches off the floor. The boiler is an Ideal Classic but it stores water in a tank and is about 12 years old.

For the last 10 years we have had a Valiant combination/condensing boiler and are used to having hot water all the time. Also, I don't like the sight of CH pipes running around the room. I'm quite happy to have them sunk into the floor.

I have budgeted for a new CH system but I keep reading posts about hanging on to the Ideal boilers?

What should I do - have everything ripped out and start again?

 

[kittedup]

You could keep the current boiler, and just redo the pipe work?

Personally I'd upgrade the cylinder to an unvented one (depending on if your water supply is suitable) at the same time. Plus get the system cleaned and add a magnetic filter.

Keep the current boiler going as long as possible, then when it does need replacing most of the work has already been done a d the new one goes on a spotless system.

Ted

 

[Nige F]

The house is 1930's and the gas central heating has big old pipes. The downstairs has concrete floors and pipes are mounted a couple of inches off the floor. ?

Can you post a pic? Depending on the size/layout of the pipes it may be best to keep or remove or cover

 

[JohnD]

What do you mean by big old pipes? Iron pipes? 22mm copper?

If you used to microbore it is awful.

As the floors are concrete it will be hard to hide the pipes.

Nothing wrong with a cylinder, and it will give you hot water (from the immersion heater) even when the boiler is out of action. What colour is the cylinder?

Combis break down more often and have shorter lives than conventional boilers of equal quality.

 

[Georgie73]

Hi

I can't post a picture as I don't have any. We aren't able to go down to the house for a couple of weeks, but I will take pictures then.

The pipework is very old - it looked like copper to me.

I can't remember the colour of the cylinder but I think it has a polystyrene type coating on it.

I know for a fact I will want radiators moved and new modern radiators fitted. I'm sure the floor can be dug out and the pipes go into the floor? I really don't like to see pipework.

Why on earth did the Government push us all to change our conventional boilers if the Combi's don't last?

 

[kittedup]

They didn't. All new boilers must be condensing, not combi.

Very common confusion.

My advice stands stil. Do all the pipework and rads and keep that boiler as long a possible. Your choice on what you do with the cylinder.

Ted

 

[Georgie73]

Thanks. What options would I have with the cylinder? Can cylinders be moved up into the loft?

You mentioned changing the cylinder to a vented one - I don't know what this is, can you post a link so I can have a look/read?

Also, aren't Condensing Boilers supposed to be more economical to run than the old fashioned boilers?

Many thanks
George

PS - the size of the pipes I believe are 1 and a 1/4 inch.

 

[JohnD]

Yes, condensing boilers are substantially more efficient than old iron boilers. In my own house I saw average annual gas usage drop by more than a quarter.

Have you found the colour of your cylinder yet?

It is possible to put a cylinder in the loft, but likely to be rather inconvenient and the pipes especially liable to freeze. It will be heavy.

he said an unvented cylinder. This is not fed from a cold tank in the loft, but from the watermain. If you have good flow and pressure, it can give unsurpassed supply of hot water. An older house may benefit from running a new, larger supply pipe right out to the main under the pavement, to improve oncoming flow. If you are modernising the house and plumbing, now could be the ideal time. You will hear Megaflo mentioned, it is a popular brand, in the same way that people say Hoover when they mean vacuum cleaner. Due to the pressure, unvented cylinders have to be installed, and regularly inspected and serviced, by a person with an extra qualification.

If you fill a bucket from the kitchen cold tap, time it, and calculate litres per minute, it will give a very rough idea of the flow currently available. Measure it from the garden tap as well, if you have one.

 

[Georgie73]

Yes, condensing boilers are substantially more efficient than old iron boilers. In my own house I saw average annual gas usage drop by more than a quarter.

Have you found the colour of your cylinder yet?

It is possible to put a cylinder in the loft, but likely to be rather inconvenient and the pipes especially liable to freeze. It will be heavy.

he said an unvented cylinder. This is not fed from a cold tank in the loft, but from the watermain. If you have good flow and pressure, it can give unsurpassed supply of hot water. An older house may benefit from running a new, larger supply pipe right out to the main under the pavement, to improve oncoming flow. If you are modernising the house and plumbing, now could be the ideal time. You will hear Megaflo mentioned, it is a popular brand, in the same way that people say Hoover when they mean vacuum cleaner. Due to the pressure, unvented cylinders have to be installed, and regularly inspected and serviced, by a person with an extra qualification.

If you fill a bucket from the kitchen cold tap, time it, and calculate litres per minute, it will give a very rough idea of the flow currently available. Measure it from the garden tap as well, if you have one.

OK - I can't see any point in changing to an unvented cylinder if it isn't more economical than a condensing boiler.

We are going back to the house next weekend so I will take pictures of the boiler and pipework.

 

[JohnD]

OK - I can't see any point in changing to an unvented cylinder if it isn't more economical than a condensing boiler.

The benefit of an unvented over a vented cylinder is not its cheapness, but its excellent hot water flow and pressure. With a good supply, it can give two powerful showers at the same time, or fill a hot bath very quickly, and your shower will not go cold (or hot) if someone turns another tap on. In these respects it is greatly superior to a combi.

You can use either type of cylinder with an old or a new boiler.

 

[Georgie73]

OK - I can't see any point in changing to an unvented cylinder if it isn't more economical than a condensing boiler.

The benefit of an unvented over a vented cylinder is not its cheapness, but its excellent hot water flow and pressure. With a good supply, it can give two powerful showers at the same time, or fill a hot bath very quickly, and your shower will not go cold (or hot) if someone turns another tap on. In these respects it is greatly superior to a combi.

You can use either type of cylinder with an old or a new boiler.

OK, that's useful information.