Ideal Boiler Flue Installation

[Gravyspoon]

Evening all,

I have an Ideal C24 HE Mini, and the tip of the boiler flue on the outside wall had disintegrated as it had gone brittle over the years. Decided it was best to have a new flue fitted, and understood that the tip of the flue was a part of the flue itself, and couldn't be replaced independently.

Local Gas Safe chap came highly recommended having done work for family, and was very pleasant when he came to do it. He then left in a little bit of a hurry, but had other jobs, so thought nothing of it. Had chance to have a quick look before he left, and it was immediately obvious that the flue stuck out further than the original, so you could see the white pipe behind. I pointed it out, and he reassured me all was ok, so I took his word for it.

About 20mins later, I popped back out for another look and spotted that some cable ties had been used on the end of the fitting. Basically, the end of the new flue was badly cracked, and he'd cable tied it up and gone on his way, clearly hoping I didn't notice. I immediately emailed him and he replied shortly after saying he would fix it.

At this point, he's lost my trust, so I called Ideal's technical line this morning to query the white flue pipe sticking out of the wall. They were very helpful and said in no uncertain terms that no white pipe should be visible as this part is not weather or UV resistant. I assumed it was just a standard length part, but after lifting the lid on the outside bin later that evening, I found the end that had been chopped off. He'd obviously cut it wrong and hadn't bothered to re cut it.

He's contacted me to say that he has sourced a new tip for the flue and he will fit it this week. Alarm bells are ringing however as I'm sure that I have read that this part is not replaceable independently of the flue. Can anyone confirm please? I don't want to end up with a bodge job.

Credit where credit is due, he's offered to fix the end of it, although he obviously thought I was stupid and wouldn't notice, which has insulted me a little. I have requested that the length of it is also corrected and am awaiting a response, but I'm positive that this needs to be done.

Could anyone help with the following please?
- are flue tips generally replaceable on their own?
- am I being unreasonable to request that it is removed, cut to the correct length and reinstalled correctly?
- is there any reason why a flue can't be removed, cut and reinstalled? (Thinking seals etc)
- would this technically be deemed as At Risk as it's not fitted in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions?

Thank you

 

[muggles]

Yes the terminal can be replaced, it's only a couple of screws holding it in place, but the flue does need to be cut to the correct length. Normally it's a black weathering collar on the outside too, not a white one. He might be best off buying a complete new flue and starting again

 

[Gravyspoon]

Finally came back to do the job properly. Or not. To break the flue free, he had to hammer and chisel the cement from around it. As I suspected this has damaged the new flue pipe visible on the inside. Not the end of the world, but not happy with it. In addition, you can tell that the terminal is different to the original. He's fitted a Baxi flue terminal to the end of the ideal flue. Again, it 'fits', but I could have done that my self and the point is I paid for a proper job.

Spoke with the manufacturer again who said it's not right. Spoke to Gas Safe (didn't report him at this stage) and they said it's also not right as you shouldn't be mixing and matching different manufacturer parts. You can see where he's had to chop the internal pipe in the flue to make the terminal fit.

I realise it's all not the end of the world, but the point is I asked for a quote and am paying for a professional job, and I've ended up with a bodge job and a cosmetically damaged flue pipe inside.

When I mentioned Gas Safe (I made no threats, just kept it factual) I had a reply within minutes to say he'll get a new flue kit ordered and installed, which is what I asked him to do second time round.

He's now messed me about and lied to me twice over the course of two months, and as far as Gas Safe are concerned has carried out the job illegally on both occasions. I'm not about causing trouble for the heck of it, bit when you're paying a few hundred pounds and end up worse off than before, it doesn't sit right.

Am I unreasonable if I draw the line here and get someone else to do the job? No money has been paid yet, and frankly, I don't want someone that I can't trust in my house.

He's done work for family, including new system installs, and it's raised doubts over the job hes done there, even though it looks pretty.

 

[kidgreen61]

Your man needs to admit his error, buy a new Ideal flue, & cut it to the correct length, it's really not difficult.
There should be no white on show, & it must be an Ideal flue.

 

[Madrab]

Yup, don't see what his problem is. It's not rocket science for a seasoned installer to fit the flue correctly, it's just about making the right measurements and cutting properly. Is the flue at an easily accessible height?

Also trying to remember with the Mini HE but I'm sure Ideal's standard flues have the plastic flue terminal fitted inside the outer flue. There are 2 holes on the outer flue and plastic lugs on the terminal pop out into those holes to hold it in place rather than it's screwed on. Someone may be able to confirm for the Mini HE though and if they're still available?

 

[DP]

Yup, don't see what his problem is. It's not rocket science for a seasoned installer to fit the flue correctly, it's just about making the right measurements and cutting properly. Is the flue at an easily accessible height?

Also trying to remember with the Mini HE but I'm sure Ideal's standard flues have the plastic flue terminal fitted inside the outer flue. There are 2 holes on the outer flue and plastic lugs on the terminal pop out into those holes to hold it in place rather than it's screwed on. Someone may be able to confirm for the Mini HE though and if they're still available?

That is the flue is have fitted on a Logic, Logic plus and vogue boilers. terminal in OP’s post does not look familiar

 

[Madrab]

Actually, the more I look at it, the one in the pic look like a Vokera flue TBH. Only one I can think of that has a screw/rivet though the terminal. Either way it's not right and TBH if that's what he done then I wouldn't be having him back. You can't use other manufacturers flues, it has to be right.
If it's the old old Mini HE as against the newer I-Mini(Send a pic of the boiler)then I'll bet that flue is obsolete and you won't be able to get it anymore and he's just gone for the cheapest concentric he could find which is very naughty indeed. A call to Ideal would confirm whether the old one is obsolete and whether their standard flue kit would be compatible but I wouldn't think so.

Edited for wrong grammer

 

[DP]

Boiler is a Band B
Suspect inner duct should be alloy, not plastic. Terminal too, would that not need to be alloy as heat from the heat exchanger may well melt the plastic terminal; while picture above does not indicate that, might be prudent to check with Ideal.
Other screen grab is boiler and GC number, OP check if the number is correct as per label on your boiler

What prompts people to mess with gas appliances like this

screen grab show picture of flue that is proper for the logic and Vogue

OP, is the turret elbow metal or plastic

 

[Gravyspoon]

Thank you for all of the responses everyone. It's good to know I'm not just being awkward about it. Gas appliances are one thing that I always try and make sure is done right. Too risky for the family.

The flue is really easily accessible - just above head height with nothing else around it, in or out.

Also interesting that the first flue may not have been right... The terminal on the original was white, if that helps identify it? The turret elbow is metal and the body of the flue pipe is metal. The pipe down the inside is plastic.

The boiler is the old Mini He 24 with the grey fold down flap at the bottom with controls behind. Will try and get a pic up for you.

The number on the boiler is 47-348-38.

Thanks so much for all your help and guidance - anything else that you can chuck my way is helpful thank you - just want it done right. If it's obsolete, it's annoying, but I'd sooner stick a new boiler on than bodge the flue...

Thank you

 

[Madrab]

What prompts people to mess with gas appliances like this

I think the scariest part is that this chap is a GSR. Surely the old flue should have given him a hint (probably all metal) that he couldn't just replace it for a newer type flue. As always, the golden rule with gas boilers, especially the older ones, always replace like for like!!

OP, I would stop using your boiler until this is all sorted out. Please send a pic of the boiler if you can't check out the numbers.

 

[Madrab]

If it is the old, old mini, ideal will say that it can't use a new type flue. It may not be too hot TBH, as it's an HE, meaning it is a condensing boiler so the flue gases will be cooler than a SE and I believe the old flue inner was plastic, but you can't just use any old flue and hope for the best

 

[Madrab]

@ DP, where did you get the exploded flue diagram, I use the free boiler manuals site too, great resource, never seen those though. Bet it's staring me right in the face.

 

[DP]

Google searched the boiler installation manual and then the flue for that boiler
Screen grabbed Mr Central Heating offering for said boiler flue