Ideal location for bathroom extractor

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I have a small-ish ensuite with no windows and a failing extractor. This has caused mould in various parts of the ceiling. I was planning to replace the ceiling with a moisture resistant board and fit a new extractor.

The ensuite has a small shower, toilet and hand basin.

I had two questions please:
1. where should the extractor be located
2. I don't have access to the loft (once the boards are back on) and therefore, assume that an inline fan is not an option. Which ceiling mounted extractor do you recommend?

Thanks in advance.
 
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For it to work well air should be drawn across the room. When air is sucked out of the bathroom, air will come in from somewhere else to replace it. Ideally the source of the replacement air (usually the door) will be diagonally opposite so that the air travels across the entire room collecting steam and erm... smells as it does so.

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In reality it's not always possible to do this when the fan has to be sited on an external wall. So a ceiling fan can be a better solution.

To work out the extraction rate, calculate the size of the room in cubic metres. Depending upon whom you ask, for a bathroom generally the recommended air exchange rate seems to be somewhere between 6 and 10 changes per hour. So if your bathroom is say 25m3 a fan with an extraction rate of 150 to 250m3/hour would be required. If you do use a ceiling fan the length of duct should be as short as possible, because the air resistance it creates will lower the performance of the fan.

Also to be considered. Is the fan suitable for the location it is installed in? If in Zone 1 (less than 2.25 metres from the floor when installed above a bath or shower) it needs to be suitably rated for such a location (IXP4 as a minimum).

A 'run on' timer will help clear the room after use. We have ours on a PIR set to run on for another 20 minutes after we leave the room.

Heat is also important. Mould is caused by lack of heat, in that if the walls & ceiling are cold, any moist air that comes into contact with them will condense even with a fan running. Also, warmer air carries more moisture than cool air, and so the air being expelled by the fan will contain more moisture if it's warmer. Not ideal when we're all trying to conserve heat though, but that's the physics of it. If the problem is with the ceiling is there sufficient insulation above it?
 
Thanks for the very comprehensive response.
My door is in the middle of the ensuite (walking in, shower to the right, toilet to the left and basin in front. The window in the bedroom is approximately 4 metres away from the bath door and at the other end of the room.

I can use some rockwool nsultation or top it up when I remove the ceiling. I think that is advisable?
Also, once I have done the calculation, an issues with oversizing the extractor?

Thanks again.
 
If you have steamy showers and no window, I strongly advise an extractor of at least 240 cu.m/hr, coming on with the light switch and with an adustable timed overun. Since you have no windows you will be turning on the light every time you use the bathroom. Good quality modern extractors with ball-bearing motors can be extremely quiet and use negligible electricity. Put the extraction grille directly above the shower.

If you have no external wall you will be using a ducted fan.

Is the duct already in place?

I think an inline fan will be your best bet.

If it is impossible to get into the loft for some reason, put a removable panel in the ceiling.
 
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If you have steam showers and no window, I strongly advise an extractor of at least 240 cu.m/hr, coming on with the light switch and with an adustable timed overun.
The "ensuite" is 80cm wide 2.5m long. Do you think it needs that rate of extraction?
Presumably, that can only be achieved with an in-line fan and that will require a hatch in this relatively small ceiling.

Is the duct already in place?
Yes but I will inspect this when I replace the ceiling.
 
One of the points that has been alluded to above - if you are extracting air, you need a source of replacement air.
If your current door is well fitted with small gaps, the fan won't be operating as efficiently as it could be.
Do you have a large gap under the door, or a grill on it?
 
The "ensuite" is 80cm wide 2.5m long. Do you think it needs that rate of extraction?
Presumably, that can only be achieved with an in-line fan and that will require a hatch in this relatively small ceiling.


Yes but I will inspect this when I replace the ceiling.
The steam is generated by the shower, regardless of room size.

The duct, most likely will be 100mm diameter.

There would be an improvenent in efficiency, and possibly noise reduction, if larger.

Rigid tubes are better than the convoluted hoses, and less liable to hold fluff and condensation.
 
Looks a bit small to me. I would look for something to span at least two joists, that you could get your head and shoulders through, to unmount, rewire or replace the fan if and when necessary.

Probably hinging down and latched in place.

This link shows the size of the silent 250 as an example.


Smaller ones are available but not as good.

It is probably no harder to fit a large panel than a small one.

@Jupiter01 updated
 
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The folks above know loads more than me about this stuff and what I'm about to say could be wrong but my electrician said, when we were talking about where to put my fan, don't put the fan in the ceiling because condensation will drip out of it - he said the external wall is a much better place to have it, venting directly outside. My loft is really accessible so he was recommending the harder (for him) option, I think, and he's just a lovely fella so I'm 100% sure his advice was for my benefit.
 
This can happen sometimes if the duct is vertical (i.e. goes straight up and through a roof tile) and condensation can run down the inside and out through the fan. If the duct slopes down slightly towards the eves instead, then condensation will run away from the fan. If the fan 'runs on' for a while after the steam has been extracted the dryer air will help dry the condensation inside the duct.

Insulation of the duct will also help. But it's a good idea to do this anyway to prevent heat loss when the fan isn't in use.

In exceptional cases a condensation trap can be fitted just above the fan will catch the condensation before it reaches the fan.

ct.JPG
 
If the duct slopes down slightly towards the eves instead, then condensation will run away from the fan.
This may solve my problem elsewhere...
The eve in question has a vented soffit. Can I just drop the duct "in there somewhere"? It's impossible to get to the eve from the loft and not particularly easy from the outside either as its a very narrow passage on the side of the house. This eve/soffit is around 30cm from where the bath extractor is.

Interested in your thoughts.
 

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