We had a new cylinder installed just over a year ago and water has been heating up overnight (using economy 7) fine until a few days ago when this no longer happens. We've had the element replaced by a plumber and as he said that no power was getting through so an electrician took a look and confirmed there was power getting to the element but that it was tripping out the fuse and that it's the element/heater at fault. Am now confused as to what the problem is and who I need to get to fix it? Electrician or plumber? We've looked for the Economy 7 timer but can't find one as the wires go straight to switches so gather we don't have on and it's automatic (switches have always been left on). Any ideas?
Immersion Heater/Economy 7 (replaced but still trips)
- Thread starter Stanling
- Start date
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if you disconnect and insulate the wires does it still pop the fuse 
the economy 7 timer is built into the meter
the economy 7 timer is built into the meter
Electrician checked everything like that (I'm not good with the technical stuff) and just said that it's the point where heater/element that's tripping the switch (which he had replaced). The fuse box itself doesn't show any signs of being tripped (as in there is no fuse switch needing to be reset).
my next thought would be, did the electrician verify that the wires into the immersion element head were correctly connected? No spare whiskers of wire?
He could also have tested the resistance across the immersion heater terminals to confirm (he might have already done that)
What do you know about the qualifications of the electrician? Does he have trade associations and memberships shown on his card and invoice? What are they? How long did he take, and what did he charge?
Most often, the sheathing on an immersion heater fails with age, and cracks, allowing water inside. It is not impossible that your plumber damaged the element putting it in (although in the past I have seen plumbers bend them to shape and they still work ) or it might possibly have been a faulty one, but this is very unlikely.
I would suspect either something that was already present being at fault, or a mistake in changing the element. But your electrician will probably have thought of the obvious things, especially if he has dealt with lots of domestic faults before.
How old is the flex from the wall switch to the immersion heater? What colour is it?
How old is the wiring in your house?
Are you sure it is an MCB that trips (will be marked 16A most likely) or is it an RCD (will have a "Press Monthly to Test" button on it)
p.s. if you can add some photos that will be great
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=129539
He could also have tested the resistance across the immersion heater terminals to confirm (he might have already done that)
What do you know about the qualifications of the electrician? Does he have trade associations and memberships shown on his card and invoice? What are they? How long did he take, and what did he charge?
Most often, the sheathing on an immersion heater fails with age, and cracks, allowing water inside. It is not impossible that your plumber damaged the element putting it in (although in the past I have seen plumbers bend them to shape and they still work
) or it might possibly have been a faulty one, but this is very unlikely.I would suspect either something that was already present being at fault, or a mistake in changing the element. But your electrician will probably have thought of the obvious things, especially if he has dealt with lots of domestic faults before.
How old is the flex from the wall switch to the immersion heater? What colour is it?
How old is the wiring in your house?
Are you sure it is an MCB that trips (will be marked 16A most likely) or is it an RCD (will have a "Press Monthly to Test" button on it)
p.s. if you can add some photos that will be great
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=129539
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Whilst I appreciate that this posting is primarily about electricians, I would say that it would be better placed in heating and plumbing.
Clearly the plumber was just that! He could not even discover why power was not getting to the element.
The electrician equally could apparently not really work out what the problem was ( in spite of being able to make the relevant measurements! )
I would say that a good heating engineer will be the type of person that you need!
Not all will be able to work it out as they need to be able to measure voltage, current and resistance and apply Ohm's law.
These are the most simple elelctronic circuit so anyone with even the most basic electronics experience should be able to manage it. Electricians are taught the basics required but many just dont seem to be able to apply it.
Tony
Clearly the plumber was just that! He could not even discover why power was not getting to the element.
The electrician equally could apparently not really work out what the problem was ( in spite of being able to make the relevant measurements! )
I would say that a good heating engineer will be the type of person that you need!
Not all will be able to work it out as they need to be able to measure voltage, current and resistance and apply Ohm's law.
These are the most simple elelctronic circuit so anyone with even the most basic electronics experience should be able to manage it. Electricians are taught the basics required but many just dont seem to be able to apply it.
Tony
I put this post in both plumbing and electris as I am so confused as to who I am meant to call - moderator moved it to electrics.
I am happy with the electrician that came around - he was registered with the recognised trade assos/m'ships. He checked the circuit box and the switches supplying the heater/tank with power and everything was fine. The only fault he could find was the when the power reached the heater/element this is where is was causing the switch to trip. I rang the plumber who installed the new heather/element and he told me that it was done correctly so sent me back to the electrician.
I just do not want to pay for another plumber or electrician visit until I know which one can fix the problem?!
I am happy with the electrician that came around - he was registered with the recognised trade assos/m'ships. He checked the circuit box and the switches supplying the heater/tank with power and everything was fine. The only fault he could find was the when the power reached the heater/element this is where is was causing the switch to trip. I rang the plumber who installed the new heather/element and he told me that it was done correctly so sent me back to the electrician.
I just do not want to pay for another plumber or electrician visit until I know which one can fix the problem?!
I'm not sure what the OP says is tripping. It sounds to me like it's the immersion heater thermostat safety cut-out. This often needs resetting if the thermostat temperature is set too high. Try turning it down a bit, if that is the problem, after safely isolating it, of course.
cheeky git..
we're taught a hell of a lot more than the basics..
if there's power getting to the ends of the cable where it connects to the element then the element or the thermostat is at fault..
a simple reading taken with a multimeter would see if the element is faulty ( doubtfull as he say's it's new ) and a simple test with an IR meter would tell if the hard wiring between the meter and the element was ok..
don't tar us all with the same brush because he got an idiot plumber and an idiot sparky..
one of them was obviously wrong.. or perhaps both..
could be that the OP has a controller fitted and it's that which is faulty.. we don't know..
if the OP could post pictures of the wiring in the element, the "switch" he mentions and the fuse board and surrounding area we can advise further..
we're taught a hell of a lot more than the basics..
if there's power getting to the ends of the cable where it connects to the element then the element or the thermostat is at fault..
a simple reading taken with a multimeter would see if the element is faulty ( doubtfull as he say's it's new ) and a simple test with an IR meter would tell if the hard wiring between the meter and the element was ok..
don't tar us all with the same brush because he got an idiot plumber and an idiot sparky..
one of them was obviously wrong.. or perhaps both..
could be that the OP has a controller fitted and it's that which is faulty.. we don't know..
if the OP could post pictures of the wiring in the element, the "switch" he mentions and the fuse board and surrounding area we can advise further..
The simple answer is that NEITHER of the people you have had round have the skill required to identify a VERY simple fault !
Thats regardless of their memberships etc.
Very sadly many people working on plumbing, heating and electrics are just inadequately trained and experienced.
Tony
Thats regardless of their memberships etc.
Very sadly many people working on plumbing, heating and electrics are just inadequately trained and experienced.
Tony
I'm not sure exactly - all I know (and can remember being told) is that when power goes to the heater/element it trips/blows the switch which the wires from the heater/cylinder are connected to (looks like a basic power switch - we've changed the 13A fuse). Nothing changes on the main circuit/switch board and no water is getting heated.
what rating does the element have written on it?
stupid question, you did refill the tank with water after changing the element didn't you?
stupid question, you did refill the tank with water after changing the element didn't you?
Then consider my suggestion above. Under the immersion top cover there is a thermostat. Danger: isolate the circuit before taking this off. On the top of the thermostat there is a temperature setting, and a tiny little red button. If it has tripped, (I believe the button sticks up a bit), then push it in and try setting a lower temperature on the setting wheel; try 10 degrees lower to start with. Reassemble it, and switch the power back on. See if it works now.
I'm not sure if I did this right but I've uploaded a photo of what the water tank looks like (I'm at work and not able to post actual photo of it connected) thought this might help get some answers? Might have to go to my profile to see it????
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