Income Tax is fair

[JohnD]

I was talking to two neighbours the other day* over a mince pie.

One is a working man who grumbled that on his earnings of £50k, he pays £7,486.00 income tax and £4,853.63 National Insurance.

The other neighbour is a private investor receiving £50k of dividends, who pays £3,100.13 income tax and no NI.

Obviously this is perfectly fair.*

Shouting over the high wall of his grounds, our multibillionaire neighbour said that he pays no tax here because, although a UK citizen, with an English peerage, born here, educated here, owning a house here, owning a newspaper and internet company here, that sells British goods and services, in Britain to British people, he says that UK is not his real home. He says he inherited this status from his British father, who lived in France for a while.

Obviously this is also fair.*

If you doubt my word, check it yourself.

Income tax calculator - Which?

Calculate the income tax and National Insurance you'll pay in the 2024-25, 2023-24 and 2022-23 tax years

www.which.co.uk

Dividend tax calculator - Which?

Use our 2024-25 and 2023-24 dividend tax calculator to work out how much tax you'll pay on the dividends you earn from shares

www.which.co.uk

Jonathan Harmsworth, 4th Viscount Rothermere - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

* these bits are not true.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

I don't profess to know the ins and outs of our tax system, however I suspect much of this falls into the following bracket. If you're PAYE, as many (most?) of the masses are, your income is a relatively straightforward thing to be calculated and taxed on and, because you're PAYE, it's there for the taxman, oops sorry taxperson, to see.

For those with more complex income (and therefore tax) affairs, coupled with the likelihood they employ the services of a good accountant (or raft of accountants the more wealthy they are) taxation becomes a more complex affair.

And we're then getting into the moral aspect of taxation. If taking them at their word, I've seen some millionaires/billionaires interviewed who say they pay a significant amount of tax, however they could most likely pay less, sometimes significantly so, if they so desired.

As for business, year in year out we see stories of global businesses with a UK presence paying very little in tax. One side argues it's not fair (or maybe even illegal) the politicians talk tough ... but nothing seems to change

In summary, as with most things in life, it's the ordinary working person that will always be stuffed in these situations.

 

[Diver Fred]

Presently I'd be happy to see a small increase in all rates - say a penny or two at the lowest rate to at least 5p on the highest rate. Targeted to help the NHS and some benefits whilst the present issues work there way out of the financial climate.

 

[JohnD]

I wonder if it is pure chance that our governments have written laws to treat the rich more generously than the rest of us

 

[Mottie]

I wonder if it is pure chance that our governments have written laws to treat the rich more generously than the rest of us

Do you know of any governments that have written laws to treat the poor more generously than the rich?

 

[Vinty]

I was talking to two neighbours the other day* over a mince pie.

One is a working man who grumbled that on his earnings of £50k, he pays £7,486.00 income tax and £4,853.63 National Insurance.

The other neighbour is a private investor receiving £50k of dividends, who pays £3,100.13 income tax and no NI.

Obviously this is perfectly fair.*

Shouting over the high wall of his grounds, our multibillionaire neighbour said that he pays no tax here because, although a UK citizen, with an English peerage, born here, educated here, owning a house here, owning a newspaper and internet company here, that sells British goods and services, in Britain to British people, he says that UK is not his real home. He says he inherited this status from his British father, who lived in France for a while.

Obviously this is also fair.*

If you doubt my word, check it yourself.

Income tax calculator - Which?

Calculate the income tax and National Insurance you'll pay in the 2024-25, 2023-24 and 2022-23 tax years

www.which.co.uk

Dividend tax calculator - Which?

Use our 2024-25 and 2023-24 dividend tax calculator to work out how much tax you'll pay on the dividends you earn from shares

www.which.co.uk

Jonathan Harmsworth, 4th Viscount Rothermere - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

* these bits are not true.

What is the point of being rich if you don't get special privileges.
By the way, i didn't know you lived next door to multi billionaires.

 

[JonathanM]

Do you know of any governments that have written laws to treat the poor more generously than the rich?

I'll probably regret posting this. But I think there was an effort after WWII, under both Labour and Tories, to make things a bit more equal. The top rates of income tax were very high up until until the 1980s. Since then we've had lower income tax, higher VAT, and successive cuts to the value of benefits.

 

[JohnD]

Do you know of any governments that have written laws to treat the poor more generously than the rich?

Did you ever hear of Death Duties?

Or the Guillotine?

 

[Mottie]

Ah, so it’s a revolution you're after, comrade? Good luck with that.


Death duties? You mean someone that has a fair chunk of money, dies and can’t leave it to his family without the government taking a chunk? You'd want that for your kids (assuming you have any) and think that’s fair?

 

[JohnD]

Let me remind you of the question you asked

Do you know of any governments that have written laws to treat the poor more generously than the rich?

You shouldn't ask questions if you don't want to hear the answer.

Dummy.

 

[Mottie]

Let me remind you of the question you asked




You shouldn't ask questions if you don't want to hear the answer.

Dummy.

Apparently JohnD doesn’t like to hear his answers questioned.
All hail the great reticent one.

 

[JohnD]

I answered your question.

You didn't like it

 

[Justin Passing]

I was talking to two neighbours the other day* over a mince pie.

One is a working man who grumbled that on his earnings of £50k, he pays £7,486.00 income tax and £4,853.63 National Insurance.

The other neighbour is a private investor receiving £50k of dividends, who pays £3,100.13 income tax and no NI.

Obviously this is perfectly fair.*

Shouting over the high wall of his grounds, our multibillionaire neighbour said that he pays no tax here because, although a UK citizen, with an English peerage, born here, educated here, owning a house here, owning a newspaper and internet company here, that sells British goods and services, in Britain to British people, he says that UK is not his real home. He says he inherited this status from his British father, who lived in France for a while.

Obviously this is also fair.*

If you doubt my word, check it yourself.

Income tax calculator - Which?

Calculate the income tax and National Insurance you'll pay in the 2024-25, 2023-24 and 2022-23 tax years

www.which.co.uk

Dividend tax calculator - Which?

Use our 2024-25 and 2023-24 dividend tax calculator to work out how much tax you'll pay on the dividends you earn from shares

www.which.co.uk

Jonathan Harmsworth, 4th Viscount Rothermere - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

* these bits are not true.

You aren't comparing like with like.

If you earn a lump of money you pay income tax.
If you work a little you pay little tax. You are then a POOR person
If you work harder to build your lump of of money you pay a lot more tax.

So if you've worked really hard, paid a load of tax, you can invest your lump of cash and earn money on it. You are then a RICH person?

You're complaining that it's not fair that those figures are different.
Are you saying that the guy who has paid most tax on his money already, has to pay at an even higher rate when he tries to earn from it?

Careful whom you're calling dummy!

 

[Mottie]

I answered your question.

You didn't like it

..And didn’t see fit to answer mine. Do you think only you should be asking questions then? What makes you so special?

 

[JohnD]

You're complaining that it's not fair

Show me the complaint you imagined you saw.