Indian Stone Questions / Advice

[sotal]

I've got to lay our new patio soon, at the moment it's just a patch of soil.

We've decided on indian stone, but I have a few questions as I want to do it right!

I've been up to the local suppliers who sell indian stone for £12+vat /sqm or £14+vat /sqm. The more expensive looked a little more vibrant. What I can't work out is how I buy it / design how it's going to look and what exactly I need to do to lay it.

I made a quick sketch and took it to the place, the bloke took a quick look and said a single crate would do it (12.5 sqm), and for laying it he said I'd need a bag of type 1 at £35 a bag and a bag of sand at £35 a bag.

So the price for a crate of the cheaper stuff was £180 + £70 for hardcore/sand - so £250 inc vat for the lot with free delivery.

I've not ordered yet but 12.5sqm seemed to not be enough to me. I was guessing at about 15sqm but now I've sat down and tried to work it out a little I reckon it's 16-17sqm.

So firstly the quick questions:

1) Do these places always sell by the crate or can you have a crate and a half?

2) Should you buy an extra percentage like you do with tiles ie 10% more than you think you need?

3) I've seen designs for layouts do you work to these or just fit them how they fit best? Any tips for layout?


The next thing is laying it. I presume I should level the soil as best I can, then place hardcore down (is type 1 the correct stuff), then put sand down, then put stone slabs on top??

Questions about laying:

4) What thickness of hardcore should go down?

5) does the hardcore need compacting down?

6) what thickness of sand should go on?

7) should I mix any cement in to 'stick' them down? if so should it be a dry mix or wet mix?

8) what sort of gap should be between the stone slabs?


I've also got some newly built steps which are waiting for the stone to go on top.

9) how much should the stone overhang the steps?

10) should I use any stronger way of sticking the stone down on the steps?



Please feel free to add any other advice. I'm trying to learn as much as possible quickly! I want to make sure it's done right I don't fancy doing it again in a few months!

 

[sotal]

From research I have answered a few questions, can anyone confirm they are correct:

4) 100mm

5) yes

6) 25mm sand/cement mix

7) damp mix 5:1 sand :cement

Is that correct?

 

[Thermo]

I've got to lay our new patio soon, at the moment it's just a patch of soil.

We've decided on indian stone, but I have a few questions as I want to do it right!

I've been up to the local suppliers who sell indian stone for £12+vat /sqm or £14+vat /sqm. The more expensive looked a little more vibrant. What I can't work out is how I buy it / design how it's going to look and what exactly I need to do to lay it.

I made a quick sketch and took it to the place, the bloke took a quick look and said a single crate would do it (12.5 sqm), and for laying it he said I'd need a bag of type 1 at £35 a bag and a bag of sand at £35 a bag.

So the price for a crate of the cheaper stuff was £180 + £70 for hardcore/sand - so £250 inc vat for the lot with free delivery.

I've not ordered yet but 12.5sqm seemed to not be enough to me. I was guessing at about 15sqm but now I've sat down and tried to work it out a little I reckon it's 16-17sqm.

So firstly the quick questions:

1) Do these places always sell by the crate or can you have a crate and a half?depends on the company

2) Should you buy an extra percentage like you do with tiles ie 10% more than you think you need? allow an extra 10%

3) I've seen designs for layouts do you work to these or just fit them how they fit best? Any tips for layout? we just lay a random pattern as we go. you can sit and work it out if you want, up to you


The next thing is laying it. I presume I should level the soil as best I can, then place hardcore down (is type 1 the correct stuff), then put sand down, then put stone slabs on top?? no it must be laid on a wet mortar bed, and not just on 5 dobs of mortarQuestions about laying:

4) What thickness of hardcore should go down?100mm compacted

5) does the hardcore need compacting down?yes

6) what thickness of sand should go on?wet mortar bed around about 25-40mm
7) should I mix any cement in to 'stick' them down? if so should it be a dry mix or wet mix?as above

8) what sort of gap should be between the stone slabs?nominally 10mm, but it is a handcut product and so there will be a variance in the sizes of the slabs

I've also got some newly built steps which are waiting for the stone to go on top.

9) how much should the stone overhang the steps?up to you, but 25mm normally looks fine
10) should I use any stronger way of sticking the stone down on the steps?

no wet mortar as above

Please feel free to add any other advice. I'm trying to learn as much as possible quickly! I want to make sure it's done right I don't fancy doing it again in a few months!

without being rude if youre trying top learn try having a search through the forum as this question gets asked many times

 

[sotal]

Thanks Thermo, wasn't taken as rude but I'd spent hours searching!

I had answered a few questions myself and had an idea for the others but just needed confirmation, you've really helped out with the answers you provided,

Just a couple of clarifications if possible:

1) For the wet bed of mortar is 5:1 sand:cement correct? I've seen 4:1 quoted as well.

2) And is Type 1 Hardcore correct.


I'm going to have a lot of stones to cut and will require a curve. When laying concrete slabs I have used my small angle grinder with a diamond turbo disc which have cut OK. I've read that they are OK and you should cut to within 5mm of the front edge then break them. I have approx 30 which will need cutting.

3) Is it correct to cut to within 5mm of the front edge then break

4) Will the grinder be OK for cutting them? Or is it going to be worth hiring a stihl saw for the day? I'm going to have to got to the hire shop for a compacter anyway

5) Will I be ok cutting an inner curve, I will then use sets along the inner edge next to these cuts will that look OK?

6) Is there a correct way to lay stones from an aesthetic point of view, like when laying laminate flooring they say to go with the longer edges pointing along the path you walk along etc?

I've done a quick scale diagram to try and work out how it could be laid, but I'm not sure that I'd be able to get the ones I've used or if I just get what they send etc! Does it look OK? The edge down the right hand side is 7m the scale was 1 pixel per cm, I've missed a couple of bits out along the curve where spare bits should fill it in. You should be able to see the curve on the layer behind. The yellow portion at the top left is where the steps are, and I have laid them out further down - they will all need cutting.

 

[sotal]

I've sorted out a stihl saw for the job,

The stone place only sells stone by the full crate but there are different size crates - so that should be OK.


Any tips or advice for cutting the curve etc?

Ignore the above layout as I will have to redo it now I know the proper sizes

 

[Thermo]

lay the slabs first so they ago over the curve. then mark it and do the cut all in one go.

 

[sotal]

That sounds like a good plan thanks for the tip

 

[Thermo]

in reply to your earlier question, i alwys cut them right teh way through. Indian sandstone can be fragile and crack if you cut near a vein and then tap it. It also gives a better cut as well. do the cuts gradually so you dont do all the dpeth in one go. feel the grinder and dont force it and it will cut the curves quite well. get a decent blade to do it with on a 9" grinder.

 

[WabbitPoo]

If the curve is a bit tight, lean the grinder over a little (like leaning a bike into a turn), but be careful it doesn't grab.

 

[Thermo]

an aquired skill

 

[sotal]

Thanks for the advice,

I've got a 12" Diamond Blade in a Stihl saw to do the cuts.

But it'll take me a few weeks to get to that point, hoping to get all the prep work done this weekend, then have the stone, sand and hardcore delivered next week, then go from there.

 

[WabbitPoo]

I think the stihl is a bit of a beast if you are not into this sort of thing. I dont use one, and get by with a cheapo, but light, 9" grinder. Is the stihl one of those big petrol things?

 

[r896neo]

Whilst the stihl saw is safer for the novice user a 9 inch grinder will be easier to get a curved cut. Indian sandstone is pretty soft so a grinder is plenty and with the power saw you will end up with a series of straight cuts that form a slightly cruder curve.

 

[Thermo]

i have both and much prefer to use a 9" grinder. much less wearing and a lot easier to handle.

 

[sotal]

I have got a 110v 9" grinder but I hate it, when it snags the thing has that much raw power it's nasty. The 4" grinder is just too small.

the 12" Petrol Stihl saw has a bit of weight behind it and the way you hold it makes it much safer, personal preferance but I much prefer the stihl saw.



Got quite a bit done today. Dug the main base down ready, built the lower retaining wall, laid the foundations for the upper wall. Just got a few bits to tidy up tomorrow then I'll order the hardcore, sand and stone on Monday ready for delivery in the week.

Just one thing I was wondering....

For the hardcore you mentioned 100mm compacted hardcore, - is that 100mm then compact it down or should I end up with 100mm after compacting?

I'm presuming I should end up with 100mm after compacting. If this is the case how much hardcore do I need to buy?

I think it's about 15m2 which requires hardcore, so if it was 100mm then comapct then I would need 1.5 cubic meters, but if it's 100mm after compacting - how much does it compact? How much would I need?

I need to hire a wacker plate, so I need to make sure I've got enough hardcore, but at the same time I don't want to end up with much spare as I've got nowhere to put it!

Thanks again for the tips