Installing a Power Shower

[seco services]

forget the check valves the shower is fitted with them.
bleed valves are useally only needed when going up and over loft.

apart from that ok but i wouldn't be happy with the flexi hoses in the wall.

how are you getting the pipe to the shower ? in a stud wall, channeling a block wall etc.

 

[Andy165]

Don,t forget to fit a good extractor fan aswell, vented to the outside. Otherwise you could end up misted up like a chinese chippy like my last power shower customer who wouldn,t listen to my advice and had everywhere tiled over

 

[zand108]

forget the check valves the shower is fitted with them.
bleed valves are useally only needed when going up and over loft.

apart from that ok but i wouldn't be happy with the flexi hoses in the wall.

how are you getting the pipe to the shower ? in a stud wall, channeling a block wall etc.

I intend to run inside a stud wall & enter the shower unit from the rear. I am gonna pass on the flexi hoses as they are not as flexible as I had hoped & kink too easily. Just gonna use 15mm elbow bends instead.

 

[zand108]

Don,t forget to fit a good extractor fan aswell, vented to the outside. Otherwise you could end up misted up like a chinese chippy like my last power shower customer who wouldn,t listen to my advice and had everywhere tiled over

Luckily I have a fan already.

 

[zand108]

Which of these "bend options" for reducing from 22mm to 15mm would:

1) Have the least effect on the head supplying the shower?
2) Be appropriate for being sealed inside a stud wall
3) Be compatible with the JG Speedfit plastic pipes I am using?

1) A 22-15mm Reduced Elbow
2) A 22mm Equal Elbow with a 1 piece 22-15mm internal reducing set.
3) A 22mm Equal Elbow with a 3 piece 22-15mm internal reducing set.
4) A 22-15mm reducing straight coupler connected to A 15mm Equal Elbow. (Added for comparision)

Thanks!

 

[pmx_super]

Sorry to take things off track, but out of interest why did you opt against putting a pump in the airing cupboard and pumping the existing hot and cold feeds to the bath taps. Then you could happily tee off the taps like the 4 plumbers wanted to and your bath would fill quicker too.

 

[zand108]

I originally wanted to get a pump but I would have had to get a negative head one which would have set me back a few quid £££ also I would have had to get a mixer shower unit more £££ the quotes were coming in at £640 upwards

It was the plumbers themselves that suggested the idea of going with the "power shower" wouldn't have occured to me otherwise. One of them actually put me on to one going cheap at my local B&Q a Mira Event XS Thermostatic in a badly damaged box for only £99.99 quotes for installing this were much lower £150-£200.

I just didn't like the idea of teeing off the bath especially as it is the last appliance on the supply with two toilets ahead of it. I don't know for certain that using either of them whilst someone was showering would have any impact on the experience, but I thought to myself why risk it?

 

[zand108]

Also I much prefer showering to taking a bath and once I get one will proabably never use the the bath again

 

[jay1]

why not go for the triton t40 i. simple plumbing, just the electrics is gonna have to be done by a part p.

 

[zand108]

Hi Jay thanks for responding,

I don't have a problem with the plumbing I am just being a pedant. (besides I have already bought the Mira Event XS that offer was just too good to pass up. )

After researching I found these options and wanted to know if anybody had an idea about which elbow would be the least restrictive.

Z.

 

[ChrisR]

2) I'll be vertically teeing off the horizontal hot pipe (No flanges for me!!!)

You might get away with it. I wouldn't mind a quid for every time I've seen that way of connecting introduce air.
Mira would I daresay also recommend that the pipe from the loft cistern to the HW cylinder input should be 28mm.

It works like this: imagine a pump right next to the take-off from the pipe at the cylinder. That puts a big negative pressure there. If the water finds it easier to come down the vent pipe than down the feed to the cylinder, through the cylinder, and out of the top, it WILL come down the vent pipe and you'll suck air in every time.

Now think of the pump far away from the cylinder, with the same plumbing otherwise. The negative pressure at the connection, caused by the pump, is much less than when it was close, so you get away with it. It gets a bit harder to follow when you consider that there are static pressures set up as well as reductions in pressure due to the flow through the pipes, but if you think about it or draw it you'll probably see it.
The same is true of connecting to the bath pipes. Very often you do get away with it, because the taps are a long way from the cylinder. Sure you might be sucking at the bathroom basin taps, (plus any others connectd close by) but that often doesn't matter while you're in the shower.
That's why plumbers often want to connect to the bath pipes - it usually works, unless you're VERY close to the cylinder. If you ARE close, then connecting to the underside of horizontal or heat-losing sloping pipes doesn't work.

It's easy to be paranoid about pipe sizing too. Remember that you're likely to be asking the water to go up a shower hose say 1.2m long and 10mm internal diameter. And that's the hot PLUS the cold. You don't want much resistance on the inlet side of the pump because of cavitation/overheating etc, but a bit of 15mm, or quite a lot of 15mm, on the outlet, makes little difference.

I don't know why more people don't use Essex flanges. They don't disturb anything, it takes several seconds to drill the hole, and about a minute to screw the thing in. True you have to drain some water, but hey...???

 

[zand108]

Mira would I daresay also recommend that the pipe from the loft cistern to the HW cylinder input should be 28mm.

Yup they do. But it's not a loft cistern the cistern is in the airing cupboard and sits 80cm above the hot water cylinder.

Now think of the pump far away from the cylinder, with the same plumbing otherwise.

The power shower is going to go on the wall above the bath taps so the pump would be over ten metres away,.

Sure you might be sucking at the bathroom basin taps, (plus any others connectd close by) but that often doesn't matter while you're in the shower.

Precisely the reason why I want to have a seperate shower feed. In my house the only time the other half wants to be in the bathroom is when I am in there as well. Apparently she gets "lonely" otherwise. You can bet your last penny that once I am in the shower she'll burst in and start washing her face or brushing her teeth or (heaven forbid) be on the loo.

Also there is a seperate toilet next door which others may well use to exact revenge against me I know I would do it to them.

That's why plumbers often want to connect to the bath pipes - it usually works, unless you're VERY close to the cylinder.

Usually works... I don't want to have the work done only to discover later that had I held out for what I wanted, instead of caving in to bullying tactics, I wouldn't have had any problem at all.

My position is why take the chance just do all you can, when you can. If the problem still develops then C'est la vie you did all you could now just shower as best you can and get on with your day.

But for a problem to develop because I didn't listen to my mind and instead tried (to my way of thinking anyway) to cut corners. I'd sooner raze the house to the ground than step foot in the bathroom ever again. a bit OTT I know but i'm different like that

Don't get me wrong I can understand why plumbers choose to tee off the bath I recognise that it is not necessarily wrong or bad practice and that I am probably being OTT by asking for a seperate feed. I am not criticising them for wanting to tee.

My criticism is that after asking them to put in a seperate feed they refused, fair enough no problem, said they were busy and it was too much work, fair enough no problem. But then when they realise I am not changing my mind they immediately lose all professionalism and start becoming condescending to the point of offensiveness... all 4 of them why? . So I am being OTT, so what....

If it can't be done at all, then i'll accept that but I was not asking them to break any regulations or to plumb the bath in upside down. If you don't want to do it,then don't, just make way for somebody with more time and willingness. No need to lose your professionalism and turn on a prospective client.

It's easy to be paranoid about pipe sizing too

Yeah that's me , paranoid about the number of elbows as well Hence the previous post (which I would really appreciate if you could answer BTW ).

I don't know why more people don't use Essex flanges. They don't disturb anything, it takes several seconds to drill the hole, and about a minute to screw the thing in. True you have to drain some water, but hey...???

So you think an essex flange for my situation is the way to go? Contrary to other opinions I have been given but I will definitely look into it.

Thanks ChrisR.

 

[zand108]

Which of these "bend options" for reducing from 22mm to 15mm would:

1) Have the least effect on the head supplying the shower?
2) Be appropriate for being sealed inside a stud wall
3) Be compatible with the JG Speedfit plastic pipes I am using?

1) A 22-15mm Reduced Elbow
2) A 22mm Equal Elbow with a 1 piece 22-15mm internal reducing set.
3) A 22mm Equal Elbow with a 3 piece 22-15mm internal reducing set.
4) A 22-15mm reducing straight coupler connected to A 15mm Equal Elbow. (Added for comparision)

Thanks!

Any takers??

 

[zand108]

It has been several weeks but I will be installing my new shower in the next fews days .

Instead of teeing off the HWC I got myself an essex flange as it seems a better option & it will make a possible upgrade to a dedicated pump at some later date simpler.

Can speedfit pipe be directly inserted into the HWC via the essex flange or is it better to use a short 1m run of copper pipe inside the HWC and connect the speedfit pipe to that instead .

Either way how far do you insert the pipe into the HWC the instructions for the Essex Flange fail to specify.

 

[zand108]

At the top of the HWC there is an unused tapping (which I assume would be used for an immersion heater) Instead of drilling a new 38mm hole for the essex flange can I use that instead.

I have this 22mm Non Stop Essex Flange from Toolstation, is it likely to fit?

For reference I have an Albion 1050 x 450 Grade 3 indirect copper cylinder here are some pictures below:

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• zand108
• 26 Oct 2008
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• zand108
• 26 Oct 2008
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• zand108
• 26 Oct 2008
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This is the tapping here.

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• zand108
• 26 Oct 2008
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• zand108
• 26 Oct 2008
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